Posted by Dave Brewster on April 22, 2000 at 00:01:21:
In Reply to: Re: And mine 2cents and a dime/ but I'm far from done. posted by Kerry on April 21, 2000 at 11:41:17:
: Tom may be honest, forthright, and a good friend of yours but Unions are meant to be a show of working power to save jobs and direct industry for the sake of the workers, not the business interest of executives and administrators.
They are only the collective power of the industry in that economy. At this point there is little to sacrifice to make gains at WBS. You are living in some other time.
:You have made plenty of excuses for Tom and for yourself
I've made no excuses at all. If you care to dispute facts then try it but do it with facts.
: but it seems your current interest are tied in with Tom's. So what you say means very little.
I've said this long, long before I ever had worked under him as a director or ever knew he was going to direct. My opinion hasn't changed a bit in 20 years on Tom so actually your opinion means nothing.
: God love everyone, but a union means assertiveness, the idea is that as a union it speaks collectively without conceding for the sake of temporary comfort.
It also means using common sense in making choices for it's members. With the sudden jump by thousands this union gained what was to be a sure fire problem and constant failure of non Disney films to perform has soured this market badly.It had nothing to do with Tom .
:Snakebite is right, if work is being shipped off to Yowza Animation while there are unemployed artist here, then it's THEN and NOW that you take the stand. especially if as Union President your reason for being is to watch over the interest of your members.
In couldn't care less what you think of Mr. Snakebite or his ability to assess. You are asking Tom to sacrifice something for no gain for anyone. Now unless you have plans to call a general strike in violation of the contract you have nothing to play with.
: Oh I see, it's to meet deadlines and for financial reason's (I say sarcastically). You mean again bowing to the needs of the administrators and executives!!
Now what you are suggesting is that even though the extra work was up for bid between independants he should quit ?
You want him combative to the point he loses the job period. No film is ever just the artist and you cannot by force of will make this happen in an independant company. It worked so well in the 70's it virtually ended animation here.
:Your time and energy should be put into trying to get the independents into the union or gaining their sympathy, to get them to understand that the available amount of work would explode if work was kept at home.
What are you talking about ? Explode ? Have you looked at the studio slates ? Are you talking about TV or feature because feature looks pretty bad period . My agenda has always been to find some common ground between union and independant. The problem is independants will have to learn and seek out people willing to invest the capital needed to develope films.
:Not conceding, but constantly finding weak links in the agendas of the executives and their money only attitudes. The union president should not even have the conflict of interest of being in a position to suffer a loss if he doesn't concede.
Sorry but name a director who was not in the position of possible loss and negociates ? Name one ? Every single director is in that position. Because he is the union rep it makes no difference. If you think you can do better Kerry , run. That would leave Tom free at least to be employed.
: Let me rephrase that a Union Leader should not have business interest that conflict the unions core purpose (Keeping jobs at home) Tom is dealing with issues too close to his own wallet and caring for his own family to make the kind of difficult decisions that need to be made as union leader.
Sorry Kerry but your constant attempt to discount his motives and somehow lay this companies choices at his feet is futile. To you Tom even being in the business is a conflict to you because anytime an issue is before them you claim he is bias.
If it ever came to negotiations it would be too easy for the bad guys to pin point Tom's weak spots.
Perhaps you are only judging by your own ability to keep faith with your own ideals. Nice specualation on your part but silly when you know Tom.
: All Large successful unions have union leaders that do nothing but watch the interest of its members, more then not, that individual becomes a walking pain in the butt. Striking fear into administrator hearts when he/she calls or walks into a room. Not working with and conceding to administrators. This is why their salaries are paid by the union. Not by large companies who hire them.
You are so out of touch with where we are that I dont think we can talk. You want to frighten execs do you ? I suggest you get in there and run Kerry. I do. I have seen enough to know this isn't steel working.
: Tom might think to himself, "AHHHHH okay, shipping work off to Yowza, I understand it's financial it will help us meet the deadline, okay, I'll just make sure that doesn't piss off my union brothers by telling them that is how the business is and there isn't anything we can do about it. That the budget is small."
It was not his choice. Do I have to repeat this over and over ? These companies ship out shows every god damn day and have since the last strike . What exactly do you think is different ?
: Of course the freakin budget is small, they know what they can get away with!!! When executives sit down to budget a project they always work toward the smallest numbers, and they will actually calculate what they can and can not get away with. And since you are ready to defend their excuses then they will continue to calculate such successions into their budgets. Their only jobs are to make sure a project is done as cheaply as possible.
You haven't a clue what is going on here. None. You think this is 1968 and the union can somehow force these people to cough up the cash.
: Wake up Mr Brewster, nobody's asking you to dislike Tom but if you can't see that his own motivations are too close to his own well being to make difficult decisions then you are simple being naive.
Wake up yourself. You picture this as if you have some hold over these companies. Like we have that edge. My admiration for Tom is not changable because you think there is conflict.
: You are also full of crap when you say you are too busy to join a picket. You are missing the point of a union...let me spell it out for you U..N..I..O..N.
There was a fine turn out Kerry. What is your problem here ? So every artist that couldn't or didn't go is full of crap huh ? Or do you just reserve that for me because , I like Tom (who was there).
:Now let me translate; a number of persons, societies, states, or the like, joined or associated together for some common purpose.
: Myself, I would have called in sick and gone to the picket. Maybe you were a little afraid of being fired, or maybe you were enjoying you work and having a difficult time feeling any sympathy for your suffering associates. At least snakebite went.
Snakebite went for reasons that have nothing to do with a U.N.I.O.N. Those that could, did. You dont know me or what I do so you taking shots at how much I "feel" is stupid and desparate. Now here is a message for you Kerry. There is pain everywhere. Absolutely everywhere and the only reason I came here was to talk about what we can do. I dont have "sympathy " Kerry , I have something far worse, I have "empathy". I've been there. If your judgement of people and what they do is limited to showing at one picket than I pity you. You obviously hate most of this union.
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