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Posted by Kevin on April 08, 2000 at 19:39:07:

In Reply to: Re: JANITORS OF LA! Sheepie NEEDS YOUR HELP! posted by Sheepie on April 08, 2000 at 12:33:27:

: : I'm afraid I can't share your view, Sheepie. I'm a working animator and I made it to the meeting. It was a choice, not some passive act of fate.

: You are speaking for yourself as you were able to "make" time.

I didn't "make time." I just went. Period. I went knowing the world would not end, knowing it was worth the possibility that some production person would get a hair up their ass. And I went knowing any such production person would realize that I was not one of the sheep, and that I'd probably get more respect in the long run.

:Not everyone saw this meeting as the "solution" nor were they able to "make time". See Kev, just because you do doesn't make it so.

I never said it was the solution. I was merely disputing your point that "working animators" are somehow exempt from putting their money where their mouths are.

: As for you telling people who can't make meetings to "shut the hell up" it is not your place to decide if that is the only solution or to judge whether they earnestly couldn't come.

Go ahead, Sheepie, misrepresent what I said. It's there for anyone to read (even though you were crafty enough to snip it out of your response). What I actually wrote was that I no longer have patience for those who want to bitch and complain about the union or any other group not making their lives better when the complainer (read "sheep") isn't willing to do a damn thing themselves. Perhaps where you graze you're required to do unpaid mandatory overtime and hence can't make it to union meetings in the evening. Going to union meeting is hardly the "only solution." Neither is creating false barriers and straw men, as you're doing, though I suppose that makes it easier for some people to continue to sit on their asses and leave their fates in other's hands.

:Here is something for you to think about, if you tell them off do you really think this will make them "want" to join in.

Like I said, the people I'll be telling off are the ones who complain about the union but won't go to union meetings. I've tried the other approach. Doesn't work. Sheep just want to graze.

:Of course not, like Charles it will be a just a childish outburst. If you objectify people then they will do the same. You can call them "sheep" , they call you a "nazi". The idea being it should be encouraging to go to meetings and not used as a sign symbolic loyalty. Thinking you don't need even the unmotivated is crazy and wasteful.

Like I said, at this point you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. As a point of fact, I DO NOT have any need or use for the unmotivated. And I do put a high premium on loyalty.

: AN or the Union isn't the sole solution for any one problem.

No one ever said they were. But of course if you want to continue to stay uninvolved until someone comes along and presents the perfect, complete, sole solution for your approval, then be my guest.

:You seem to think that picketing PBS for animation that will never come here is going to benifit feature animators at Disney DreamWork, Warners ?

Did I ever say that? Nope. I'm not interested in benefiting feature animators at anyplace. I'm interested in benefiting all animators in LA, and in helping build a new future for animation that will be a real golden age. And to that end I will be on that picket line, making my useless little symbolic gesture.

:Of course not. Not one tiny bit yet you expect them to jump on the bandawagon like it is manditory.

I guess that means you won't be taking any time out of your busy work schedule?

:Is it really a surprise many don't see any benefit ? Of course not. That is your solution, not everyones.

Somehow I'm not surprised, Sheepie. Keep munching that grass while it's here.

: Before you call anyone names you had better be sure there is benefits to your action for all and not just minimal symbolic benefits for yourself.

I don't think there was any direct benefit whatsoever by my going to the AN meeting. Nor will there be by my picketing PBS. But you see, I don't think the way you do. I do believe in symbolism. I do believe in sending messages, then doing one's best to back those messages up. I believe in doing SOMETHING, even if it's not the end all and be all.

: Judge not, lest you be judged.

We all make judgments. And in the end, we can only judge others by their actions, not by their hearts. I am perfectly willing to let my actions speak for me. So judge away, Sheepie.

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