Re: what's with the kiss-up?

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Posted by Sheepie on February 21, 2000 at 13:54:38:

In Reply to: Re: what's with the kiss-up? posted by claire on February 21, 2000 at 06:28:05:

: : : is this really necessary?

: :
: : Yes.

: No. It's not! It was to appease.

It was to clarify. Charles never withdrew his comments.

: : i think that most people
: : : on the 'fringe' are far more able to adapt to the
: : : present and future changes than are Most in the feature
: : : realm.

: :
: : Do you think feature animators are bred on some island where they are taught to ignore reality ?

: Of course not. My comments were only addressed
: toward the tone that Charles specifically used with
: Feature Animators. That's all.

Generalizing. Without knowledge of the actual sitation. What things look like and what they are are two different things.

: They work in the very same business you do.

: Yes they do.
: The heavy influx of animators to features didn't come from schools but from that very same fringe.

: Yes...and no, not necessarily.

: :Knowing overlap or reversals doesn't make them any different than you.

: True, just as i said.

Then you shouldn't make that distinction.

: : the true innovators, in any field, usually work
: : : outside the conventional way of doing things. just because
: : : someone isn't fluent in 'overlapping action' or 'reversals'
: : : and the great things that come packaged with feature budgets,
: : : doesn't mean that they are any less innovative at all.

: : Animation comes in many languages visually.

: That's the beauty of it all.

:: A good animator doesn't make judgements on whether it fits the Disney standard but whether it was effective for that film making.

: This is true. As it should be.

: : : 'fringe' people, out of necessity will, in fact, probably
: : : be pointing the direction. they are better at surviving.

: :
: : Ever worked in any major studio ? After you do we can talk about "surviving". The grass is always greener.

: Yes I have. Several of them. Lots of very fine people.
: And a few really annoying egos too. Overall a great
: place to work.

Then you are one of the "sheep" then.

: :
: : : it's the big studios that usually discover and promote
: : : the smaller, more inventive independents.

: : : case in point, aardman animation. pixar was pretty small once
: : : to. feature studios now fund these places, and their
: : : unique styles, in a big way.

: : : so, charles, enough with this nonsense. okay?

: : It was not about "kissing up" but about giving equal respect to all artists.

: Which is what Charles did in his first comments. The second was as
: kiss-up to the feature realm, which was unecessary.

The moment you call artists "sheep" in a generalized attack it destroys any unity. If you want this an independant site then just say so. Lots of us who do featues can leave. Names aren't necessary to get across a point.

: If you think that change can be obtained in all studios by just catering to the fringe alone then you are mistaken.

: Never even implied that. Where did you get that?

I think generally insulting the feature community says that.

: :If what you want is to splinter into factions then it is your right but then eventually you will not be radical enough.

: This is a reach. My response to Charles was in an effort
: to NOT select one group from another. There are fine,
: innovative artists in every realm. And the feature
: realm does have very, high standards. It's a great
: environment to be in. But most feature conform to
: the traditional methods of animation.

Again, you are making distinctions. The visual language is unimportant.

The big
: studios must make films that are profitable, to survive.
: And it's getting harder to do that.

It's harder to do it any any film. Live or animation. In case you hadn't notice live action films are pumped out at an incredible rate and are flooding their own markets.

: If you work at someplace that is successful you will be considered too comfortable.

: True. And some get very comfortable. And why shouldn't they?
: There's not a thing wrong with that. I have observed more
: innovation and advancement of our artform, from outside
: the realm of feature animation. But there is innovation that
: takes place there too. I wouldn't begin to deny that.

Saying Charles is "catering" to anyone is not fair. It wasn't a retraction but him clarifying what he meant. The last get thing I would call him is a "kiss ass" so it isn't fair to say he was kissing up.

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