Posted by sam on October 19, 1999 at 21:34:51:
In Reply to: Re: BIDDING posted by Dave on October 19, 1999 at 12:30:37:
: Thanks for posting this Sam.
: : concerning the PBS thing, as you've been discussing with 'mako' whom i know very well
: : is that, yes! u.s. studios can send things overseas. PBS does tell their patrons
: : that 'their money' is working for them. that becomes more of a PBS accountability issue than
: : one directed toward canadians.
: And should be. Most of PBS has been dominated in part by BBC British series work and I doubt the British contribute a dime.
my family loves british comedy night! we think that it's some of the best stuff on tv. and we have sat thru numerous reruns. the question i have about those productions is 'are those productions funded by PBS?' or does PBS buy the rights to air them?
: :according to what you have stated, nelvana has had a good working relationship with PBS for years. and if that's
: : the case, then why go anywhere else?
: Well I dont see where Nelvana really even suits the "quality entertainment " requirements that PBS professes even beyond accountability or some past relationship. That to me is a mystery in itself.
while visiting my brother in michigan, we took a short trip to toronto and i actually applied to nelvana in 1981. they were somewhat amused that someone like me, a texan, was willing to come all that way just to paint cels. they did lots of that back then(cel painting), and i liked their stuff. i thought it was a good way to get started and my intention was to get enrolled at sheridan and have a part-time job. well, lo and behold, they recommended that i try getting into to sheridan too. so i did. never got to paint cels at nelvana though. met some nice people who worked there while i was attending sheridan. i knew nothing about work visas or things of that nature. they did search my pick-up for guns though. the border guy was convinced i was carrying. after all, i had 'texas' plates. the guy actually said that. true story.
: as far as contributions go; hmmm. let's see canada has like...25million and the u.s. has like...250million. all right. i guess it's the thought that counts, eh?
: I dont know. Are you saying it was a waste to send them my thousand over the years ? This of course before I made any real money to speak of but I felt they provided some of the best programming out there and felt a responsability despite the border. Most stations work within a broadcast area so it would depend on that PBS station where their revenue comes from. It might make more of a difference to those that need the extra revenue . More than you think. Of course, if you take PBS as a whole you cannot argue the US population. I don't know Sam. You tell me. It is not often I am belittled over a population I have no control of. Despite that I feel no regret for my contribution. When I made it I was contributing as a viewer and not as my assigned label. Silly me.
i'm sorry dave. i misunderstood what you were saying here about the contribution. i thought it was a 'typo'. thanks for clarifying that. no doubt, PBS provides qualilty programming and ought
to be supported. i do that too. if the US population contributes more to PBS, by virtue of having a significantly larger population, that's just a fact. it was not intended as anything other than that. it relates to why some US studios question the practices concerning PBS.
i admit i could have been less trite about my choice of words there. point taken.
: : our 'artist owned' company, little wolf entertainment, was asked to bid on the 'osmosis jones' project. little wolf and another studio that i've collaborated with on projects, to show
: : a larger workforce and more resources to draw from. together we put together a competitive bid, taking in mind the canadian dollar factor. as i would have guessed, the contract was awarded to
: : a canadian studio.
: Well, actually I am at Warners and from what I know they are taking on more than one (like four) and that only one is solid (maybe). Even so they have no start date. I think you are being asked to bid because it isn't over.
they told me one studio for animation and one studio for efx. i questioned that myself. but i was told that they were looking for large numbers of people already in place. our studio is project driven. we can't keep people if we don't have work. kind of like jon has mentioned. we've been thru that process too. although we were told that the decision had, indeed been made, we submitted our bid anyway...in hopes of a change of circumstances, just being prepared, and just simply following thru on what we were asked to submit.
: now what should be noted about this situation is that we were told that the decision was made based on 'experience' and 'financial' concerns. as far as i can gather, our experience level is no less than the studio to which it was awarded.
: I'm not sure if that is totally true since the owners of Yowza , Roger and Claude Chaisson are not only the most experienced animators/clean key I know but Roger is a LA Disney animator and Claude is one of the best keys I have ever worked with ever. Ever. Here, there Ireland, France , Spain, , Germany, US. I dont know anyone who is comparable in Claudes case. And that is from personal experience. That doesn't mean that the contract should be awarded on that basis but it may have influenced it. Again. I dont think this is over yet.
ok. ok. our experience doesn't match the combined experiences of the chiasson brothers. i have brothers too. one's a gynocologist...awful artist, but a legend in his chosen field, and the other brother is a boat captain on south padre island in texas. he can't draw either but he's an amazing angler. best ever eh? well, i can't argue with that. you know your stuff! i'm not being facetious. but i would love the opportunity to participate alongside that talent. i know we have people who can do it right. i have heard of the chaissons. and they do have a fine reputation. my point wasn't to question anyone else's credentials. i had lunch once with a couple of disney animators and was introduced to roger chiasson at that time. i know that they have some other good people working with them as well. i was given names of some of the others. i would say that the chaissons are fortunate to have someone like you, even though their talent is so apparent, showing such strong support on their behalf. that's great and that's how it should be.
: AND....WB had not even received our quotes yet. so how could they base
: : the decision on financial considerations? i purposely put together a bid that would be competitive...even with a canadian dollar.
: What I do know besides there in no start date for outside studios is that there must be more than one. Did they say it was over ?
they said that decisions were made. but i remain optimistic. a film is not done til it's done. (that's my profound statement for the week).
: : the issue of 'experience' was interesting too. although others took complete credit for these events, i was the primary person responsible for the first 'feature' contracts to be awarded to a texas studio. the first was space jam and according to the producer of that movie, our studio was rated #1 among ALL the other satellite studios that contributed to that film. other films that were done at that studio represented, at minimum, the same caliber of artistic ability. i started little wolf and our first contract out of the gate was 'anastasia'. and our work was well received there too. i am also a regular contributor to animated spots for warner classics, even though there's no shortage of laid off animation talent in LA. so the 'experience' issue that was brought to me at WB feature seems to be more 'smoke' than anything else. i was also told that decisions in the direction of the canadian studio had been well underway even before the bidding process began. this is what i was told. i don't have much more to go by than this.
: Myself I wasn't here so I do not know what when on before production. I'm not sure why that would be the case given that there were other studios listed on the production board awaiting start dates. Why would they have decided on Yowza ? If quality, experience and price were equal, why ?
: : so why were we even asked to bid then? maybe you can lend some insight.
: As I said , my take is Yowza may have been one of the first on but I do not think they are the last. Did they tell you that all bidding was over ?
i am aware that yowza has been working on some good projects consistently for a while. my hat is off to them and i support any studio that produces good work and makes all efforts to support their artists and related staff. after my days at heart
o' texas and some significant milestones that we achieved there, i had some down time. our new studio, little wolf, is gaining back some of that hard earned ground. i could fill you in on details but not in a public forum. when our webpage is complete in the next couple of weeks, i'll let you know...if you're interested. who knows? you might even decide to come for a visit.
we are in the heart of down-town austin...the 'live music' capitol of the world!
i am not personally frustrated or resentful of canadians or any other group. i have lifelong friends from my days at school up there. i spent 3 weeks with several of them in montreal last fall. most of them weren't actually animating either. it was mostly pre-production for them.
i am a bit frustrated and bewildered, like many others about some of the current trends in animation.
see ya'dave, et. all! gotta' finish a scene.
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