Re: Anonimouse. Or what nonunion bosses say to each other.


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Posted by Dave on June 18, 1999 at 21:59:05:

In Reply to: Re: Anonimouse. Or what nonunion bosses say to each other. posted by The Non-union Boss on June 16, 1999 at 07:46:40:

: Gads, Dave ... you've got such a funny laugh.

You have great hearing.

: Re: the FTC, savings on Canadian-content shows, any rebates they get are more than US animators get. Do we get rebates on "American content"?


Companies who get Canadian Content rebates are under heavy restriction for the definition of what Canadian Content is. I dont know that the FTC is even under that heading as it seems to be based on Canadian employment. Claiming that they get ANY rebates as Canadian animators even on Canadian shows is a bit like saying the tooth fairy will be delivering those rebates. Whether Americans get rebates isnít even important since there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF any Canadian animator ever got them.


: Re: the Canadian FTC, there are no content stipulations. It just needs to be PRODUCED by Canadians. To quote the news release:


The FTC is a separate EMPLOYERS rebate and as I said previously isnít part of the Canadian Content funds at all but seems to be applied to tax rebates on film crews (no where does this indicate it has anything to do with animation studios) and as stated itself allows only 25 % of the total of 12 % of total budget. American cities all give visiting film crews /industrial companies rebates and tax shelters to produce worki in their cities because the companies bring big dollars to the local economy. Iíd be interested in ANY proof that any competing Canadian company has ever been able to claim this for doing American series work. Iím sorry, I just dont believe it and apparently you dont because you never have produced any.

: "Minister Dhaliwal indicated that foreign film production activity in Canada brings significant benefits to the Canadian economy
: and that the government recognizes that this activity has the potential to grow. In 1996, foreign film production in Canada
: exceeded $800 million.

: "'This program will help Vancouver and Toronto remain major North American film production centres. It will be a more
: efficient way to attract foreign film production to Canada than the privately promoted foreign film production service tax shelters
: that were popular in the past', said Mr. Dhaliwal."


So what. This doesnít even state any direct connection between any rebate being a contribution to any increase in foreign film production. The last twenty years (long before FTC which came into effect 1994 ) foreign film companies have been producing heavily in Vancouver and Toronto because of the incredibly weak Canadian dollar.This is obviously a live action film incentive program and has absolutely nothing to do with animation in Canada. Show me the PROOF that any one ever got a dollar for animating anything American.

: So in other words, previously they had a program that was being abused by hucksters. The new one is designed for real, viable *FOREIGN* production (i.e. non-Canadian). Could this be clearer, Dave?


Clearer ? No, it couldnít be. In order to attract foreign film companies to shoot LIVE ACTION films in Canada the Canadian government offers incentives (JUST LIKE AMERICAN CITIES DO) to have them shoot there .

: The conclusion remains unaltered.


Yes, you have no proof this can or ever has been applied to Canadian animation units doing American work.


: They can produce Canadian shows and make money from the government,

This was never disputed.


: OR they can win contracts outside of Canada and get rewards from the government for keeping Canucks busy.


Proof ? Please prove to me any animation unit in Canada gets funds for doing American series work ? Theory is just theory. Try proof.

:The best way to manage this, from a business point of view, is to make money on the US TV contracts, then fill in with Canadian-content (small budget) cartoons to fill cracks. In the current crisis, we are "filling the cracks" with "spec work" - producing unsold segments. We'll never make our money back on some of these, but it's better than laying people off. This means a lot when you count your bottom line at the end of the fiscal year.

: Again, nobody's calling the Canadians liars or cheaters. Australia had the same kind of government programs; when they announced them (back in the early 80's - yours truly was there), they cited the Canadian model (imperfect as it was back then). It's a great way to bring money into their small economies.

Well, in Canada it worked so well that no one funds Canadian animation units. The problem being animation companies dont provide and direct benifit to the local econmomy. Survival wages just dont produce the windfall of profit for local government. I hope Austrailias grants actually spur your companies rather than make it impossible to produce work there as Canadas government has.

: Somewhere I talked about StarToons "stealing" work from overseas' studios. My point was that if WE weren't doing it, an Asian studio would be (possibly getting it from a Canadian studio, no?). But I'm not implying WE'RE doing anything immoral taking their work. That's business.


Iím totally for an equal playing feild based on talent alone. The question is that it is more expensive to ship work to other countries and the offset of a weaker Canadian dollar seems to be the only explaination for any advantage. Companies that ship out must have reasoning beyond that. Austrailia has alomost legendary talent based on the work Iíve seen from there and in talking to producers like Lenora Hume.


: In the end, this whole discussion on Canadian law is only to illustrate ONE of the challenges that SOME U.S. STUDIO (from LA or wherever) has to overcome; namely, that its competitors may not only have the advantage of cheaper labor, but also, in some cases, government incentives (which are not "BAD" or "EVIL" and certainly good for studios within those countries).

: Incessant in-fighting is obviously another challenge.


Look, you and I seem to want the same thing. Both of us want the proof that there is (good or bad ) any extra funds going to disadvantage American companies. To ASSUME that anything is true is just not going to satisfy either of us , is it ? Proof. Show me that any company has advantage in reality (actually getting funds, not the guidelines of a unappliable tax system) and I will agree with you.




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