Posted by tinkerbell on June 12, 1999 at 01:05:21:
In Reply to: Re: Anonimouse. Or what nonunion bosses say to each other. posted by Dave on June 11, 1999 at 20:07:30:
Because I state Canada has a socialist govt. why do you start arguing with me about it's merits relative to the US? Did I take a position on that? I'm no fan of what the US govt. has become either.
What would you characterize the Canadian govt as, capitalist? communist? fascist? Check out a dictionary. The Canadian govt. most closely resembles the definition for socialist.
As to proof that the Canadian govt. offers monetary incentives, the practise is so common it's astounding you're unaware of it. The first example that comes to mind is a wretched cartoon called Pound Puppies and the Legend of Bigpaw. Produced by Atlantic/ Kushner and Locke. By hiring a Canadian director and a few other Canadians in key positions, AKL was able to get the Canadian govt. to underwrite a substantial portion of the budget. I expect you'll say I'm just making this up. That there's no such movie. Then if I mail you a copy of the movie you'll say this doesn't prove the director is Canadian. Then when I send you a copy of his birth certificate(not that I have one) you'll contend it's phoney, or you'll demand to see tax documents or a profit and loss statement. But if you just ask around a few more people in the biz you're bound to find someone who'll confirm that this practise is routine. Why does it outrage you that this is so? What axe do you have to grind?
: Sorry bout your father, but itís not an unlimtied demand. There arenít any hospitals to do it in. There are no doctors to do it. And I totally agree with you on where the costs are hidden.
Sweet Jesus, a miracle! We agree on something!;)
: : Remember the Canadian content laws?
: Yeah I do , ABSOLUTELY NO ONE I KNOW HAS EVER RECEIVED ANY KIND OF GRANT, INCENTIVE , DONATION , SUBSIDE OR TAXBREAK BASED ON CANADIAN CONTENT OR ANY OTHER FILM GRANT ! Do you have ANY idea what you have to do to qualify for those Canadian Content production funds ? Of course not. Iíve never ever heard of anyone who got funding from the government.
What an outrageous claim! That because you've never heard of anyone receiving funds, you conclude no one has ever received them. The national film board has a budget and there spending it on something.
Although I have never tried to get govt. money for animation, (I'm opposed to taking taxpayer's money for my own selfish interest) because I'm a citizen of a country who offers these kind of incentives, I've been offered more than one job so that an American company could do a co-production and use government money to help pay for their costs.
: : You are eligible for special handouts from the Canadian govt. if key members of your production are Canadian.
: You are talking about CANADIAN LIVE ACTION MOVIES, not American animation series work. Dig the phrazzzze Tinkerbell -CANADIAN CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT CANNOT BE APPLIED TO AMERICAN PRODUCTIONS !!!!! IT IT SOLEY USED TO GET CANADIAN CULTURE TO HAVE SOME PART IN THE PEOPLES LIFE BECAUSE 99% OF CANADIAN TV MUSIC AND FILM ENTERTAINMENT COMES FROM THE US!!!!!!!! 300 million people vs 27 million.
As I said above, Americans can take advantage of subsidies by hiring a few Canadians in key spots. This applies to animation or live action. I believe the categories are writer,director,producer. Two out of three of those have to be Canadian to qualify.
: :This is true for TV, movie and music. The Canadian govt. was also providing huge tax incentives to attract TV and Film production to Canada.
: THEY PROVIDE ABSOLUTELY NO SUBSIDES,INCENTIVES, GRANTS, BONUSES, REBATES, TAX BREAKS, OR ANY OTHER GIFT TO ANYONE DOING AMERICAN ANIMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Post proof of any going to competing animation Canadian companies or drop it . Evidence, you know , the stuff you said you *lean towards *.
I posted an example above. But it's probably a fabrication. They're also not doing the very same thing in France, Germany and Benelux. So there would be no point in contacting Euromedia Co-productions or any number of totally fictitious companies with your projects because they're all just hateful propaganda designed to get your hopes up.
: : I don't know for a fact that this is still going on,
: Translation: Absolutely no proof.
Translation: The trades were awash with stories of American TV and Movies being filmed up in Canada to take advantage of the tax advantages available. But those stories were false. They only did it because it's so much more convenient to shoot your productions thousands of miles away, and to take advantage of Canada's far mopre experienced film crews.
: :but assuming Jon has had his business for the last five years or more, he would've conceivably had to bid against companies being offered those advantages.
: POST ANY PROOF OF THIS! You whined about backing up things with evidence but you have absolutely NONE!
: See the above lies that I'm offering in lieu of any proof.
: : : Next I expect to hear that animators get mail in rebates for every foot of American animation they do. What crap.
: : :
: : : Tell you what Jon, I will list all the things I've done for free, animation for freinds, work on projects for no cash or recognition whatsover, time I spent, equiptment I've lent, connections I've made, references I've given. No money. Again, you dont know a damn thing about any of us. I'm getting tired of you sitting back and making summations of who we are without knowing anything about us. . It's your greatest flaw.It makes you blind.
: : Why do you assume he's talking about you?
: Who else has he been arguing with ?
He wasn't arguing with anyone. You responded to a post he made to me.
: : Guilty conscience?
: Yes, Tinkerbell was too sweet a name for you.
: :If you contend that every one in the animation industry has an impeccable work ethic you're wrong!
: Please repost where I said that.
: :That doesn't mean everyone has to be a slacker for Jon's contentions to be true.
: It also means that the rest of us have to take him generalizing. Name those people.
: :I just had someone offer to work Saturday for free because we lost a day's work to faulty equipment. Not her fault in any way! She just knows the extremely tight budget on this project. Some people like her, are willing to do anything! But for every one of her, there are ten people wandering in at 10AM, 11AM then taking a two hour lunch. But watch 'em bolt out the door at six!
: So, fire them. You arenít under any obligation to retain people who dont do the work. In fact, that is the giant mystery to all this. What the hell are you talking about them for, toss their asses out! Dont come to us and say *people just wont work*. You hired them ! Stop blaming us.
Who's blaming you? I don't even know you?
I can't fire everyone who doesn't put in a forty hour week. I'd have three people working for me.
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