Posted by Dave on June 11, 1999 at 20:07:30:
In Reply to: Re: Anonimouse. Or what nonunion bosses say to each other. posted by Tinkerbell on June 11, 1999 at 12:44:23:
: : You would lose in a debate on this, the Canadian government had socialist undertones in it's begininngs but there is no longer any basis for that conclusion.If you are trying to say that socialized medicine somehow makes it unfit in a free enterprise system I'll debate you on that. For example, my brother in law has a serious back problem and has been unable to get it fixed with surgery because there are no hospital beds and no hospitals. Thanks to our conservatives (republicans). In fact, I would say he has a better chance of being treated for free here in the US than in Canada. Any time you want to go a few rounds on this. Feel free. Socialist, BAH!
: Canada delineates no constitutional right to private property. If the people don't own their property, then the government can exercise emminent domain whenever they decide it's in the common good and appropriate the property.
: If that isn't socialism, what is?
Thats total theory. Like the states donít appropriate property any damn time they feel like it. 1876 was along time ago and as one time Commonwealth subject of the Queen they didnít have total independence but it doesnít define it as a socialist because they didnít include a constitution. Surprise, the Queen is out on her butt. We have a right to own land. And of course it has absolutely NOTHING to do with your propaganda. THEY DONT GIVE SUBSIDES FOR AMERICAN ANIMATION! Try some proof instead of this dance on 100 year old politics.
:The government sets the rates that doctors can charge their patients. If that's not socialism, what is?
WHAT DOCTORS TINKERBELL ????!!!!!! There are virtually NO hospitals, NO doctors. Proving that they have socialized nonfunctional medicine means dick here. Canadians have a better chance of being treated by free clinics in the states then by their own medical system. Weve discussed this before. Conservatives gutted the entire system. You have a greater chance of doing your own open heart surgury on yourself than getting it done there. And of course it has absolutely NOTHING to do with your propaganda. THEY DONT GIVE SUBSIDES FOR AMERICAN ANIMATION! Medicine has nothing to do with the film business.
: The govt. nationalizes any industry they choose (health care, the petroleum industry to name a couple), based on perceived benefit to the common good. If that's not socialism, what is?
Hahahaha, the petrolium industry. They didnít NATIONALIZE IT, they went into business against all the AMERICAN companies that had taken over the entire country (and still own it). Petrocan was just another gas station on the block, nothing more than that. Nationalizing means you dont have any competion. And of course it has absolutely NOTHING to do with your propaganda. THEY DONT GIVE SUBSIDES FOR AMERICAN ANIMATION!
I'm sorry about your brother in law; my father's been on a waiting list for two knee replacements for two years. But when you make something free, there becomes an unlimited demand for it. The real costs of the Canadian health care system are hidden in the form of high taxes and govt. debt.
Sorry bout your father, but itís not an unlimtied demand. There arenít any hospitals to do it in. There are no doctors to do it. And I totally agree with you on where the costs are hidden.
: : WHERE THE HELL DID THIS COME FROM ??????? Since when did that start happening. GET THIS STRAIGHT JON!!!!! THERE ARE NO GRANTS, LOANS, SUBSIDES, INCENTIVES FOR TAKING AMERICAN WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: : NONE!!!! I'm really tired of you bringing up this. If you have any proof post it otherwise stop trying to convince everyone there is some conspiracy. Anonimouse seems to think you back your self with *evidence*. Lets see it.
: Remember the Canadian content laws?
Yeah I do , ABSOLUTELY NO ONE I KNOW HAS EVER RECEIVED ANY KIND OF GRANT, INCENTIVE , DONATION , SUBSIDE OR TAXBREAK BASED ON CANADIAN CONTENT OR ANY OTHER FILM GRANT ! Do you have ANY idea what you have to do to qualify for those Canadian Content production funds ? Of course not. Iíve never ever heard of anyone who got funding from the government.
: You are eligible for special handouts from the Canadian govt. if key members of your production are Canadian.
You are talking about CANADIAN LIVE ACTION MOVIES, not American animation series work. Dig the phrazzzze Tinkerbell -CANADIAN CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT CANNOT BE APPLIED TO AMERICAN PRODUCTIONS !!!!! IT IT SOLEY USED TO GET CANADIAN CULTURE TO HAVE SOME PART IN THE PEOPLES LIFE BECAUSE 99% OF CANADIAN TV MUSIC AND FILM ENTERTAINMENT COMES FROM THE US!!!!!!!! 300 million people vs 27 million.
:This is true for TV, movie and music. The Canadian govt. was also providing huge tax incentives to attract TV and Film production to Canada.
THEY PROVIDE ABSOLUTELY NO SUBSIDES,INCENTIVES, GRANTS, BONUSES, REBATES, TAX BREAKS, OR ANY OTHER GIFT TO ANYONE DOING AMERICAN ANIMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Post proof of any going to competing animation Canadian companies or drop it . Evidence, you know , the stuff you said you *lean towards *.
: I don't know for a fact that this is still going on,
Translation: Absolutely no proof.
:but assuming Jon has had his business for the last five years or more, he would've conceivably had to bid against companies being offered those advantages.
POST ANY PROOF OF THIS! You whined about backing up things with evidence but you have absolutely NONE!
: : Next I expect to hear that animators get mail in rebates for every foot of American animation they do. What crap.
: : Tell you what Jon, I will list all the things I've done for free, animation for freinds, work on projects for no cash or recognition whatsover, time I spent, equiptment I've lent, connections I've made, references I've given. No money. Again, you dont know a damn thing about any of us. I'm getting tired of you sitting back and making summations of who we are without knowing anything about us. . It's your greatest flaw.It makes you blind.
: Why do you assume he's talking about you?
Who else has he been arguing with ?
: Guilty conscience?
Yes, Tinkerbell was too sweet a name for you.
:If you contend that every one in the animation industry has an impeccable work ethic you're wrong!
Please repost where I said that.
:That doesn't mean everyone has to be a slacker for Jon's contentions to be true.
It also means that the rest of us have to take him generalizing. Name those people.
:I just had someone offer to work Saturday for free because we lost a day's work to faulty equipment. Not her fault in any way! She just knows the extremely tight budget on this project. Some people like her, are willing to do anything! But for every one of her, there are ten people wandering in at 10AM, 11AM then taking a two hour lunch. But watch 'em bolt out the door at six!
So, fire them. You arenít under any obligation to retain people who dont do the work. In fact, that is the giant mystery to all this. What the hell are you talking about them for, toss their asses out! Dont come to us and say *people just wont work*. You hired them ! Stop blaming us.
Post a Followup