Re: Rally in Hollywood today


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Posted by Dave on May 29, 1999 at 23:37:34:

In Reply to: Re: Rally in Hollywood today posted by Jon on May 29, 1999 at 21:14:13:


: Dave,

: You haven't even given me flowers yet.

I wasnít aware it was required but FTD is only a website away.


: It would be highly inappropriate for me to talk about my client, my competitor, or my prices in such a public forum.

That was what I thought but even in general terms it seems hard to discuss without some knowledge of the actual participants or even the bids.

: Re: The Canadian Govt. being "no more socialist than the US at present", what a well-worded statement!

Hmmm. Thanks.


: Yes, Uncle Sam is rapidly catching up with the most socialist of governments of the world. Our rich capitalist heritage, allowing human beings to discover the limits of their creativity without being told what was "good" or "bad" for society, is what accounted for the first "Golden Age" of cartoons. It was fresh and alive. Nowadays everything has to go through some Film-Festival-like panel of judges (e.g. the execs we scream and moan about).

Ill agree with you on that. I have to say that the rise of politically correct corporate film making has altered the business a lot. When shows do get through like Ren and Stimpy it causes quite a stir just because they arenít bland.

: And yes, the Canadian Film Board is still insuring tax breaks for studios who want to take advantage of it. That's why I say THEIR socialist government takes care of them better than OUR socialist government does.


Well actually the Canadian Film board has absolutely nothing to do with commercial animators like you and I . They hire only *film makers* (and very few from english speaking Canada) whoís artistic skills do not fit any commercial set of standards. The budgets on those films could equal that of years wages of a fair sized paper route.

At one time companies like Nelvana enjoyed getting some development funds from CBC to make films like Devil and Daniel Mouse but Iím not even sure how small those grants were. In all my time working there I know of no one outside that company (or Atkinson )that got a thing. All my work came from Europe and the US and because of that we qualified for absolutely nothing. I believe that the rules of any grants involved having it to be a uniquely Canadian show in content and production. In other words any series work from the US or outside does not qualify at all so I have no idea how any grants or subsidies would be involved.

: We are all aware that socialist systems, while they seem to provide lots of wonderful things, still cost the citizen tons of money. There's no free lunch. I think the socialist lunch is even more expensive, when you consider the restrictions they put on you for your money.


To me that kind of socialism is a flimflam anyway. Hide this, create that to pay for the thing you arenít paying for. Originally (in the real socialist days )you paid the 200 dollars every three months if you could afford it for OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) much as our American Union dues go towards our health/dental plan (which I love by the way, joy) but CONSERVATIVES ABOLISHED IT . From then on it became a shell game of how were they going to hide the costs. In fact (I hate politics) it was the CONSERVATIVES who set Canada in itís current crisis with itís fake pseudo socialism. The hospital closingís and schools being shut down we products of trying to lower taxes. Many of the teachers and doctors felt slighted by CONSERVATIVE cost restrictions in their field especially since their counterparts in the US were in the free enterprise system and flourishing. Hence they lost many trained professional doctors and teachers to the US system.

: So Dave, what's your story?


Boy meets girl, falls in love, loses girl, gets girl back and lives happily ever after.


: Where've you been?

Disneyland. Heheheheehheee... he. Just joking . Disney ,DreamWorks, Bluth, Warners, H&B, Gaumont, Passion, Gerhard Hand, Animation House etc etc etc. Yeah I havenít done much series stuff for the last ten years so you are educating me in a way.


:We do storyboards, slugging, ex sheets, BG keys, incidental models, character posing, BG layouts, AND, YES, all rough animation and probably 25% of the assisting here in Chicago.


I think thatís great. Its wonderful to be able to even keep that much in house. Iím assuming that the 75 % assisting is to Cuckoos Nest or one of those places.


:We're a little limited as to the amount of shows we can do. But what we CAN do frees up WB's LA team to prepare whatever we CAN'T do for their overseas suppliers. We sub out most of the assisting, the BG painting, and everything else down the line to OS studios just like everybody else, but at THAT point we've made an indelible mark of quality on the cartoon ... the rest is dumb-work.

: Yeah, it's been happening for ten years here. Why others (with better connections) aren't doing it is beyond me.


I totally agree. The only thing might be the fear of getting it all set up. You must have had a vision of what you wanted to be able to set up and that is rare. It requires faith rather than security and people believe the worst.

Iím kind of curious about things because farming out is now a state of degree. As you say the overseas subcontract is still a going thing now even though it has changed due to the nature of the shows being produced. It is determining what the future brings. Shows that require more hands on film making seem to need animation that relates to acting. And there is that in newer shows. It is the sole reason to keep anything here.

Again it begs to know why there should be an advantage other than to Canadas lower dollar and before you can do anything about it you need to know what you are fighting. After losing a contract there is much to consider and if there are unfair subsidies applied to your competitor then it is totally appropriate to claim so. My problem is that the calculations needed to determine that remain hidden . Speculation on subsidies though seem a bit risky without those facts so when it was brought up I felt it would be best to discuss the realities of it and see what came up. If there was such a thing for those companies than it needs to be stopped or balanced. A level playing field is NOT to much to ask.




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