animationnation mission statementunited we brandanimationnation facebook
  • If you can dream it, you can do it. -Walt Disney

  • Quality is a great business plan. -John Lasseter

  • Let's make some funny pictures. -Tex Avery

  • I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -Howard Zinn

  • When critics sit in judgment it is hard to tell where justice leaves off and vengeance begins. -Chuck Jones

  • And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? -Jesus

  • A man should never neglect his family for business. -Walt Disney

  • What's most important in animation is the emotions and the ideas being portrayed. -Ralph Bakshi

  • Once you have heard a strange audience burst into laughter at a film you directed, you realize what the word joy is all about. -Chuck Jones

  • Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. -Buddhist Proverb

Asifa fired.

Share your views on the state of the Animation Industry.

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby EAllen » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:15 am

Bite just struck a nerve! I think Snakebite also just explained my reason for skipping last night's Emmys telecast . . .
EAllen
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Oxnard, CA USA

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby Charles » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:41 am

I think animation awards such as the Annies are definitely a worthwhile thing. Awards are fun, or at least they're supposed to be, and they're a recognition and confirmation that is needed and appreciated.

My particular issue with the revisions involving Annie Award voting is that I don't see these changes as a solution to the problem. I see it as making the problem worse. If studio employees are stacking the voting for their own films, then eliminating the voting members who can give the award voting process some balance will only exacerbate the situation. Unless ASIFA blocks professionals from voting on their own projects, maybe that will help, but prohibiting students, educators and serious fans from voting is just plain wrong. That's how I feel about it all.

I decided to pass up registering to vote for the Annies this year. I think the deadline is tomorrow to submit for voting consideration. I don't know if I would qualify anyway. I'm also considering giving up my ASIFA-Hollywood membership. I see no value to it anymore. I'm tired of supporting an organization that gives virtually no support to AN. Their basic fee of $75 can be better utilized, especially in this economy. I used to pay more than this. I would always renew my membership at the premium rate, but ASIFA killed the goodwill I had for the group.

By the way paburrows, several years ago we did have the beginnings of our own awards here at AN. They were called the Uncle Awards and there was much promise to what they were about. It was the idea of one of our members, but during the second year as we were getting ready for a follow up, he got upset over the way it was being handled and reacted with hostility on the forums. This was something that could've been worked out, but enthusiasm died for the awards after this unnecessary display of attitude. A little less of it and a little more willingness to work towards resolving the issue and who knows where we'd be with it today.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7475
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby EAllen » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:50 pm

I reiterate, voting, not voting . . . not why I joined ASIFA, and that's not a factor in my decision to remain with ASIFA.

Unless the organization does something wayyyyy out of league (like support a terrorist organization or something), I will continue to support ASIFA however I can. In addition, I may even make a monetary donation to the Archive, something I haven't done in quite a while.

As Bite said, create and be the change. I'ma continue creating and building my brand, and empowering myself so I can soon be in a position to help other artists do the same.
EAllen
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Oxnard, CA USA

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:06 am

Awards aren't the problem, I guess its how the award is perceived...why can't an award mean everyone who has produced content in said year get an award and acknowledge equally.

Winning, losing? I just don't follow. If you produce, you win! period.

Select group? how do you do that? I mean, look at our government. they're supposedly elected through the "most efficient" democracy. And look what we get.

ASIFA shouldn't be in the business of putting on award shows where they're are winners or losers. They should support the medium of animation.

"What is ASIFA-Hollywood?

The International Animated Film Society, ASIFA-Hollywood is a California non profit organization established over thirty five years ago to promote and encourage the art and craft of animation. To achieve this purpose, ASIFA-Hollywood is dedicated to striving for the following goals:

* Support and encourage animation education
* Support the preservation and critical evaluation of animation industry
* Recognize achievement of excellence in the art and field of animation
* Increase the public awareness about animation
* Act as a liaison to encourage the free exchange of ideas within the animation community
* Encourage journalism documenting current trends and activities in animation
* Encourage the social interaction of professional and non-professional animation enthusiasts
* Encourage the development and expression of all forms of animation"

To then have something like an AWARD show as the first thing they support to promote their mission seems silly to me. I wonder if they consider that " * Recognize achievement of excellence in the art and field of animation"???


But then again, the only art I see on their site is big studio based...so what do I really expect..in all honesty, not much. I haven't for a long time..and not in a bad way.lol

So again, why not just change how the award shows are handled all together. make it have different intent. Besides, the word AWARD can mean so much more. Not just about a winner and losers, or even the best. That all seems one demensional.
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby Greg B » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:23 pm

PABurrows is right. AN should have it's own awards. AN is now an established part of animation history and the global animation community at large. The sheer talent that has graced these pages at AN is astronomical from animation to anime to comics and fine art.

Getting a nod from AN should be a big feather in anyone's cap. I think we mentioned an awards venue from AN years ago but now the time is right and good for PABurrows for bringing it up.

From what I know about awards venues, you set them up much like non-profits if you're going to spend good money on a black tie type of event and get sponsors. If not, just simple certificates or statuettes or something don't cost alot. It's basically a matter of formality. I've won lots of awards online but all they send you is a logo or certificate and they link to your sites. I won an award last week as a matter of fact for a UFO based blog of mine.

Winning anything looks good on a resume' and college submission form. If you want to give away prizes like money or stuff like computers etc. you just submit a proposal to such manufacturers that sponsor the event. They would love to see their brand name on YouTube or on websites, it's free advertising and they right the cost of the prizes off.
Greg B
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:57 am
Location: Earth

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby Charles » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:10 pm

We had our own awards Greg but as I explained earlier, contentious attitudes killed them. I lost interest in pursuing it as a result and I'm not enthusiastic about doing it again, although that could change if someone helped in organizing something along these lines. I don't have the time for it nor the inclination. I'd much rather direct energy and resources towards creative endeavors.

I read what Snakebite posted in regards to ASIFA-Hollywood's mission statement and I find several aspects of it to be patently hypocritical when it comes to AN and the experiences we've had with the organization in recent years. It's funny cuz their mission statement claims more than once that they operate in "support" and also "encourage", but we've seen little of that when it comes to AN. It seems that ASIFA-Hollywood picks and chooses what they want to support and/or encourage when it comes to the industry. They're done plenty of soliciting for support and encouragement over the years. Even through AN. We've always been here to help, but the relationship is so one sided and ass backwards it makes no sense for us anymore.

Anyway, I hope ASIFA-Hollywood, especially their entrenched yet objective and balanced board of directors, continues to support and encourage all aspects of the industry. Good luck to them.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7475
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby SNAKEBITE » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 pm

I feel like i have those special glasses from THEY LIVE...like, I can see the words they are using, but I can see the real message behind the usage.

It's all PR, stands for practically real...lol, real enough for people to buy it..."HEY, we're the happy talk people, as long as we spit it you believe it." BLA

it seems to work for them...or is it? can't forever. people will tend to find out the real. It's not hard.

Again, they should just do what they say they're gonna do and get out of the artists way.

and I wouldn't want any part of an AN Awards show if it involves winners and losers. Thats dinosaur talk IM not so HO...

We have rewards to being apart of AN. Not awards.

We reward you if you create and participate. Every month. You wanna support somethin??? support that. Even the food is affordable and it helps us keep rewarding you.


...and maybe the word "reward" is arrogant too..maybe I shouldn't even use that word...award suggests, hey you impressed us judges, BLA, reward suggests we did something for you because you did something for us. BLA

its symbiotic. no one is doing anyone else a favor. You do yourself a favor by doing you and participating with each other on an equal level.

the mentality in our industry is dying thank god. The new generation is proactive and positive, supporting and understanding what it takes to make anything happen...even if others don't vibe with it. Who are any of us to say who should win or should lose?

its not a sport.

AN provides a platform for anyone who creates and participate.

so no awards...or even rewards...howa bout support and promotion..hey, thats what we do. We support and promote...and everyone who does this on AN also creates...wow, what a concept.

Sorry if that ended sarcastic. I'm doing my best to let go of that. but it's hard in the face of such an issue.

Again, I can see why Award shows are popular. It's nice to get a nod for a job well done...but if we just did that in our regular every day lives then we wouldn't need it in the shape of some falic symbol of status once year determined by people who are judging you....lol, well, some people pay for that sht so who am I...to judge.lol
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby Charles » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:53 pm

I don't and never did see AN as a contest or a competitor in any way with ASIFA-Hollywood. I've never had a problem in supporting or promoting the interests of the organization. I was happy to do it and I still do it.

Over the years, members of ASIFA's board dampened my enthusiasm until last March when they killed it for good.

Some of you know the funky bs that's gone on. It came to a peak with the commentary I published last year on the old forums, the infamous "Why do we take orders from people who can't draw" thread. Personal accusations happened as a result of some people on ASIFA's board and others who took what I wrote out of context and made a huge controversy out of it. Specifically, I was accused of personally attacking Antran Manoogian, ASIFA-Hollywood's long time president and long time friend of mine.

So in an effort to put an end to this silliness, I went to an ASIFA-Hollywood board meeting in Burbank and said what I had to say, which was mostly an apology.

During the part of the meeting where I was permitted to address the board, I mentioned that ASIFA-Hollywood has had an open account on AN for years but hadn't been used in a very long time. I suggested that if they weren't going to utilize it, to allow me to put it to good use by posting the announcements that come in from the organization. I've been doing it all this time under my name, why not do it under ASIFA's name. I'll put a banner link to them on the account and it will help promote the group further.

Keep in mind that I paid my annual $75 renewal fee that night at the meeting. A month early. So what else can I do to show positive support?

I received an email from Antran a day of two later, fairly formal in its content and tone, that the board of ASIFA-Hollywood decided that there would be a conflict for me to post announcements, the ones they publicly send out that are cleared for general viewing, on AN using the ASIFA account.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

A long time member in good standing and strong supporter of ASIFA-Hollywood posting announcements using the stagnant ASIFA account on AN, is a potential conflict?

That's what broke it for me. There's been other things, too ridiculous to relate in public, but after I got that email, and appealed the decision with some common sense in my reply to Antran to no avail, I felt enough was enough.

Life's too short and there's a big world out there. No reason to waste time and energy on this kind of thing.

I find the only real purity in animation is the art. Everything else is sullied in one way or another. Even awards at times. Whether it's ego or attitude or what have you, only the art is pure, and that's what I choose to focus on.

I really miss the old days of ASIFA-Hollywood when they were on Victory Boulevard in Burbank. Before this Annie Award stuff took over. It was nice people all the time. Jean Wright, other pleasant ladies at the desk. It's different now and although I admire and respect what they've accomplished and how it's grown, I can't help but express my disappointment in what this has all become.

Anyway, such is life.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7475
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby gwastudios » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:28 pm

Still, I think disney will have there foot in the door as a backup plan. You know, just in case.
gwastudios
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:03 pm

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby Charles » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:42 pm

Well, I think in this situation, Disney's foot is more along the lines of up the proverbial buttocks as well as in the door, but I'm confident that in time, they'll return to Annie Award sponsorship and everything will be wonderful again.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7475
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby paburrows » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:06 am

Looks like ASIFA is having a hard time getting people to vote since their extending the deadline. I recieved this e-mail since I'm not bothering to vote.



Dear ASIFA-Hollywood Member,

Our records indicate that you have not registered to vote in the upcoming Annie Awards. If you tried to register previously, you may have failed to select the UPDATE button at the bottom of the page or there was some other problem recording your information..

In order to be sure everyone has a chance to vote, the registration deadline has been extended to September 30, 2010. Your qualifications will then be vetted by a panel representing many studios and job classifications and you will be informed by email of acceptance or denial. If denied, you will be given an additional 30 days to appeal and provide sufficient proof of eligibility. Your eligibility status will also be available on your on-line profile page after it is reviewed.

We encourage you to apply for any of the categories in which you have credits or other verifiable recognition of your experience or expertise. If you are not sure if you qualify in a particular category, please apply and clearly explain your experience.

To begin the process, please log onto the updated website for ASIFA-Hollywood at www.asifa-hollywood.org. Your login name is your email address. Your password should be listed on your membership card. If it is not listed, or you have misplaced your membership card, please select Forgot your password? and it will be emailed to you.

Once logged in, select Membership-Annie Voter Application. Then check the box for Production and any other category in which you believe you qualify to vote. All professional members should apply for the Production categories (Best Feature, Best Television Episode, etc.). Add your qualification evidence in the box next to the selected categories. When complete, select UPDATE at the bottom of the page. You will see the information that has been stored in our database. Please ensure that the information you see after submitting your qualification is correct.

Your status will be emailed to you after the qualification committee reviews your application.

Your application and your vote will help recognize excellence amongst your fellow artists and bring greater recognition to our art form.

Thank you.
paburrows
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:46 am

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby Charles » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:00 pm

I received the same email Paul. I'm not bothering to submit a request to vote for the Annies either. ASIFA-Hollywood is soliciting us to submit an application to vote, which will be reviewed and then a decision will be made as to whether we're eligible or not. Then we have a 30 day period whereby we can appeal their decision if we're deemed unqualified. Ridiculous.

I also got an announcement about submitting works for Annie consideration which I would normally post on the forums on behalf of ASIFA-Hollywood. They can register here and do it themselves if they want.

Maintaining a perpetually one sided relationship with this organization is nonsense.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7475
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby paburrows » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:55 pm

Yeah I'm wondering who are they to decide who is professional or not? Reguardless of whiether they can draw or not who among them have made a movie or worked in one of those positions?
paburrows
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:46 am

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby MrFun » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:20 pm

I've got a great solution for Disney. They should simply buy ASIFA the same way they buy everything else. Then they could run the organization their way.

This will probably sound harsh, but most of us already know that award shows are B.S. It's simply a party that allows all of us to pat each other on the back and make fun speeches. Nothing wrong with that. I've always enjoyed a good party.

As usual, Disney is being silly. Walt would slap all of you upside the head if he were here.
MrFun
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:54 pm

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby EAllen » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:02 pm

So refreshing to hear this from a guy who should be given every award there is for everything you gave to animation.

I can't be that blunt about award shows, even if some do feel like an overlong backslapping demonstration. It's a great feeling to be recognized every now and then for excellence by your peers. The big problem is that animation pros are still, compared to other industries, relatively unheralded for their work.
EAllen
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Oxnard, CA USA

Re: Asifa fired.

Postby Lee Crowe » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:28 pm

Wow. I'm a bit late to this party; sorry. Been busy teaching my tail off. :roll: This is so ridiculous. I don't even know where to start. I've been an ASIFA-Hollywood member since 1984 -- when I was still struggling, getting a little freelance, working at the mall, about to start at that new place called Film Roman...I watched Antran work his tail off to make it what it is today...and this is the thanks that he and those of us who have been there since we were "just a fan" get from Disney. Mr. Fun is right -- Walt would think the whole thing's stupid and petty -- on the part of his company. So we've gotten prestigious -- the execs genuinely care what we think about animated films -- they genuinely care about this award, and they want to take voting priveledges away from our fans and students. I think Antran ought to go back to the old way of doig things if that's the way Disney's going to be about it. Grr. So irritating....!
Lee Crowe
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:21 am
Location: Atlanta

Previous

Return to General Discussion

cron