animationnation mission statementunited we brandanimationnation facebook
  • If you can dream it, you can do it. -Walt Disney

  • Quality is a great business plan. -John Lasseter

  • Let's make some funny pictures. -Tex Avery

  • I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -Howard Zinn

  • When critics sit in judgment it is hard to tell where justice leaves off and vengeance begins. -Chuck Jones

  • And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? -Jesus

  • A man should never neglect his family for business. -Walt Disney

  • What's most important in animation is the emotions and the ideas being portrayed. -Ralph Bakshi

  • Once you have heard a strange audience burst into laughter at a film you directed, you realize what the word joy is all about. -Chuck Jones

  • Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. -Buddhist Proverb

IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Share your views on the state of the Animation Industry.

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:39 pm

I get the same reaction from industry people. High ranking studio artists in the Animation Guild, rank and file artists in Guild studios, nobody cares anymore. They've done a fine job of alienating their own members not to mention independents who supported them.

Nice job TAG!

Does that make us all union haters? Are we all the enemy or just the people on AN?

A funny aspect to this, the animation historians who were present at the debate will utterly overlook the significance of it as they have everything else that doesn't fit into their narrow attitude box.

But that's okay bro because the historians of the future will thank you.

There's too much of the ugly spirit of these union people in the world today. Dealing with them drags things down. I'm not into it and am leaving this all behind. I'd rather show love and go forward in life.

It's Christmastime. Love one another and enjoy art.

_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:32 pm

I'm getting some really nice private emails from more artists I'm inspired by artistically. Telling me how much they appreciated the video...also revealing some more perspectives and truths.

One thing that was pointed out is how the two, or three who were really arguing with me were not Union reps...even the ex-president is ex...Steve let others fight for the union instead of addressing it himself...typical. Although last time I ask similar questions to Steve 12 years ago he was much more aggressive.

The other thing pointed out was how it was common practice for the heads of these companies to get together to discuss pay scale limits for artists....I guess thats where the Union comes in...they facilitate those scales.

I mean...

Who IS responsible for negotiating standard rates?

Do the companies executives propose rates to Unions and they apply to the rest of us??? Is that what they consider "their collective bargaining chip"???

With all these factors lined up, what does that make the current Union?

They say they maintain our pay scales...yeah, but in whos favor???

Watch how people use words. It's like a dark language. Twisted and distorted....sounds like one thing, but in application its something totally different.
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:15 pm

The animation union is all about Steve Hulett. I'm sure he would be leading whatever negotiation efforts are involved in whatever is being negotiated.

There's some chronic problems with this organization. One of them is how bent out of shape they get when this is mentioned. The few people who are active in the union that is. Everyone else is in agreement.

In fact, I honestly do not think the The Animation Guild is an appropriate name for the group. A much more suitable title would be Club Hulett.

Very few people from the Guild itself were present at the debate. The audience was almost entirely made up of people not in the organization. Even the current president of the Guild was sitting in the back, when he should've been on the panel. Not a word came from this man. As much as I like him, after a year as union president, he's been that way pretty much all along.

Nobody gets involved.

The union is about managing benefits for people who've paid their dues, work in Guild studios and stick with the system. That's it.

Even the suggestion of doing something new, or doing things differently, or critically questioning them brings about negativity and unreasonable hostility. They've been that way for years and years. It's impossible to rationally interact with them on their blog. When they were here on AN they were always the ones who were most over the top with something. People change and things change, but these guys got worse and worse.

All this is made possible by their system. No matter what they do or what they don't do, they get financially supported by animation artists who are forced to pay them, whether they join the union or not. As long as they are working in a union studio, the Guild will get their money. No matter how much the quality of the character of this organization diminishes, they get the money. There is no consequence associated with their behavior, and the apathy and indifference they've successfully fostered in this time has worked to the advantage of Club Hulett.

Anyway, people get a better picture now of what's what. Their next election is two years away. We'll see if things changes then or if the song remains the same.

I wish everyone good luck.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:37 pm

this post has some great cross referencing reference material to refer to as you have crossed some great referenced materials

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2737&p=6668#p6668
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:32 pm

So I just changed the privacy settings on these videos and people can embed them anywhere and everywhere!

Please share the awareness!
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:52 pm

It's a good idea to bump this up every once in a while and let the video get some additional exposure. People should see the union in action. Please refer to the video Snakebite posted on the previous page.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:10 pm

Yeah, just in case you had any illusions about the people you're paying in order to work in this town...just in case ;)
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:02 pm

Time for another bump. The great debate / argument (Women In Animation promoted it as an argument) that the union membership stayed away from. Most of the people in attendance at this October 21 event were from AN. Except of course the individuals who felt compelled to flip others off or threaten you for exposing video of this gathering that was open to the public.

There's more unedited video that was shot that night which is even more comprehensive as far as how absurd the position of the Animation Guild is, or at least as far as their leadership goes. I'll be working to make sure is shown at some time.

Here's what Snakebite managed to capture and edit. It's good to be reminded of who is representing union animation artists in Los Angeles.





_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby pkotvi » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:11 am

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
pkotvi
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Noida, India

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:00 pm

Word. I totally agree.
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:06 pm

Can you take it?
this video echoes Octobers meeting...Charles being Popeye....the union panel, well, you'll see...

User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:22 pm

That's funny, thanks for the word bro and also to pkotvi. ;)

I wasn't looking for an argument or a fight. Unfortunately, the attitudes there are so thick and embedded that it's virtually impossible to communicate with these guys in a rational manner.

I was frustrated for a long time because they were getting away with lies and misrepresentation for years. Now the world can get a glimpse at what I've been experiencing with this organization and others associated with it.

It doesn't makes sense that people who are basically good can be so caught up in their ideologies and insecurities that they can't let go and open up. I don't know what they're threatened by. Maybe they don't want their perceived authority and control compromised. Maybe that's why they consider us enemies. They don't want people to see the truth.

Well, the truth is getting out there now.

I'd welcome another debate, argument, whatever it's called. Learned a lot from this experience.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:32 pm

the dude who called me an asshole and told me to get the f*** out showed up to my Nerfgun mod show at our Gallery...lol, I guess he didn't do his due diligence. He took off once he saw me. I guess he didn't know it was my spot. hahahahahaha
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:39 pm

:lol: Too bad. He would've had a good time if he stuck around. If these guys gave themselves a chance they'd realize what a good man you are and how cool and accepting the community as Petra Gallerie is.

Don't fraternize with the enemy! There's a chance to become friends and allies.

Friends and allies !?!?!

Can't have that! :shock:
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby pkotvi » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:06 am

Looking at the videos and the reaction/body language of the people on the panel is indeed very sad. The man who who showed lewd behavior is an author of some repute, does him no credit, certainly lost my respect.

About the body language of the people it was more than hostile. I used to go to one of the famous men's blogs on history and remember one thing distinctly. Here is the link for all to see
http://tomsito.com/blog.php?post=883

It is about Bill Melendez and how he "always looked you straight in the eye".

Did these guys look you in your eye when talking Snake? If not they don't respect you. Do you respect people who don't respect you? I think not.
pkotvi
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Noida, India

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:54 pm

The person who gave the finger to the camera is Jerry Beck of Cartoonbrew. He's also the vice president of ASIFA-Hollywood (International Animated Film Society) that sponsors the Annie Awards. He's an accomplished author and animation historian. The lady next to him is the producer of the original Beavis and Butthead series. She's a very nice lady.

While I was speaking with her after the event, Jerry came along and we shook hands. I have no problem with Jerry except that he seems to have one with me. He moved her away from our conversation telling her 'You're talking with the enemy'. I kid you not. Those words came from his mouth with a smile on his face.

You're getting a glimpse into what we've been dealing with all along, and why I no longer consider animation executives the source of our problems in Los Angeles. The problems originate with the very people from our own community whom one would consider friends and colleagues, for whatever reason, see those of us who are striving to encourage artists to greater levels or empowerment as 'enemies'.

By the way, with Mr. Beck in attendance, did you see any mention of this event at Cartoonbrew? Either before or after the fact? No? Gee I wonder why.

My experiences with these people over the years has been bizarre and surreal. The dysfunction is there for all to see.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:42 pm

Regarding looking people in the eye, I know that I didn't get any of that from Steve Hulett who was sitting right next to me at the front table on the stage. No handshake either. In fact, no handshakes from anyone as far as I can recall.

The one time Steve looked at me in the eye was at the end of the debate when the issue of trolls on the Guild's blog was brought up. Steve said that to moderate comments on the Guild's blog, he would have to take it up with the executive board of the Guild. I said "That's ridiculous" and he turned and looked at me in terror. I don't know what was on his mind. I didn't mean to frighten him, I just thought it was ridiculous that to get civility on the comments part of the union's blog it had to be brought up for an official discussion with their executive board.

By the way, I don't know what happened with that. I'm assuming that nothing happened and the trolls are still free to indulge in their hate fest. I said at the event that it's impossible to interact with the union through the comments on their blog because of their trolls. Doesn't seem to matter to these guys. Since that time I haven't accessed their comment section. Couldn't care less anymore.

Another aspect of the event that impressed me. Everyone associated with the Guild looked physically weak and even emaciated. Steve Hulett looked skinny, ill and frail. Tom Sito was overweight and walking around with the help of a cane. Craig Miller didn't look healthy either. Even Jerry Beck who was sitting in the audience looked weak and anemic.

On the other hand, the people in the audience looked vibrant and full of life.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:05 pm

I even went up to the dude who told me to get the f*** out and called me an asshole, extended my hand to him for a handshake and told him "it wasn't personal cuz I don't even know you" and I got a limp hand in return, a "oooook" without looking at me and then laughed as I walked away.

These cats are no leaders of the industry. no one I respect or would get behind. kinda embarrassed for all the good people they are suppose to represent...and who pay for this type of service.

pretty sad.
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:20 am

It's sad and disappointing. I don't know of any other community within the entertainment industry where this would be tolerated.

These are the leaders. And the person who's supposed to be the epitome of leadership in animation, the current president of the union, was sitting in the back of the room and didn't say a word through the entire event.

The only way to explain it is when someone came up to me after the debate / argument was over and the first thing out of his mouth was "This is corrupt".

Imagine the Guild's business rep Steve Hulett negotiating with the studios for the benefit of animation artists. Imagine Craig Miller, the guy you had that confrontation with, a writer, negotiating for writers in the Guild. Try to picture this crew at a bargaining table facing hard core reps of the studios leveraging a deal.

Last week I heard yet another account of Steve Hulett's regular walk throughs through Guild studios. Here's the way it's described time and again...

"Hey guys, how's everything going. Everything okay? Well, that's just the way it is and the way it's been. You can't change it, that's the way this business is."

Same rhetoric as to what he was saying at the debate.

That's why attending union meetings, trying to get these guys to open up and realize just how dysfunctional they are not only to themselves but to our entire community is an act of futility.

So many ways things can improve, and all it takes is a change of attitude and a new perspective but it's not possible. Not with the caliber of leadership that gets away with this kind of behavior and with a community of artists that doesn't care anymore, whose apathy allows it to continue and even thrive.

At least now we have a visual record, something that people can see and experience for themselves, a glimpse as to just how bad it is.

They won't fight for the community. They don't have to. They won't open their minds, they don't have to listen, they don't have to care. And they'll continue to prosper because they'll get their money. Artists at union studios have to pay. No matter what, no matter what kind of job the union leaders do, no matter how they behave, they'll prosper cuz artists have to pay and artists in animation here in LA are too disengaged to get involved and change their union enough to make it something that everyone can benefit from. Something that can attract artists instead of turning them off.
_________________________________

Daily Z

Image
User avatar
Charles
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:54 am

Yeah know, just had another reminder as to why we have problems like the union...it seems most people just tend to go with the lies, cuz the money is usually the ones that lie and heaven forbid you question the money...only a select few will go with the truth because the truth is the hardest thing to do...absolutely...

I wish everyone courage in these days....it's getting thick out there.
User avatar
SNAKEBITE
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: LA

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion