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IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Share your views on the state of the Animation Industry.

IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:41 pm

This is from my "iBite Dilibertely Random Moments" personal journey's journal entry series...Bite that!...when I was invited to be at an open forum for both Animation Union Members, who got in free, and Non Union Members, who had to pay 10 dollars..I paid $20 total for me and a guest to participate...
AnimationNation.com founder and close friend, Charles Zembillas, was invited to be apart of the panel and advertised it on AnimationNation.com as an open event...Something Local 839 rarely does. Usually meetings are only open to Union members. So in the first time in almost 12 years since they participated in some sort of open event, I was there again to support such movement and to participate in the continued conversation about evolution and reform...in my very own unique style. Which if you know me, you know what I'm saying...if you don't, then participate in one of AnimationNation.com's monthly A.N. Night Events the last tuesday of every month.

Always open to everyone. Union and Non Union alike. We're all creators working for sustainable lifestyles.

So I paid to come into the fold. And silly me, I work to get my money's worth...I was kinda tired of another organization taking my money to just tell me how they see things and how I should follow their lead blindly...being a leader myself, I felt talked down to. I was surprised more people weren't disgusted by the display of false authority.

Time for law evolution...

SO, I wanted to correct myself. I used the word "change" a few times in the video. It's an old word in my vocabulary that I don't believe in anymore. One mans "change" is another mans oppression. "Evolution" is the word I do my best to use but sometimes default. "Change" is forceful, while "Evolution" is flexible and for all to partake in, but mostly represents progress...which after 12 years dealing with Union mismanagement "officials" , I see very little if none at all.

I don't have faith in this organization called Local 839...other then the benefit plan I hear is great. Me and Charles often disagree about the importance of such an institution. He
believes with proper leadership it has great strength…and I believe, the leadership is in place to do exactly what it is doing…like our government. They don't care about you and
are just maintaining the status quo…keep in line, bitches....But I believe in my good friend Charles, so I support by participating…But me thinks all they want is people to sit and listen, and do what they are told…s***, it goes without saying that I don't fit that bill...

The way it's currently set up is a monopoly and monopolies are not healthy for any environment. THe bad mentality of the leadership plagues the "joiners" ,as one of the panelist suggested I wasn't,
and all weakness of any organization is the leaders responsibility…. Leadership sets the pace. You can't take leadership positions and pass the buck to the ambiguous "joiners"...But thats my personal philosophy I guess, and like I state in the video my personal philosophy has nothing to do with the Union or their meetings...

So sling away, fellow caged apes. I would feel lonely without your s*** on my face. hahahaha. slaves always turn on each other first.

And sue away, mr innuendo. You all represented yourselves and were aware of my camera from the beginning. Feel free to cut your own version of the night with your own personal security camera systems, like mine, and continue to paint me however you like and let your online forums try to assassinate my character with their anonymous rude, hostile yet chicken s*** posts...I use my face and I stand by my name and word. I challenge you to do the same and stop hiding behind fat pocket monopolies that can write whatever history they choose. I am sovereign and document as much as my personal journey as I go..So when crossing paths with me, act accordingly cuz you never know when that s*** when come back…to haunt ya!

MISTER Asshole
Snakebite Cortez

STILL WAITING TO LINK YOU TO FULL COVERAGE. SHOULD BE AVAILABLE SOON

ps- after reviewing my video I realized that it could sound like I was referring to Gary Montalbano as defeatist...when actually I was referring to the handful of words that came out of one of the panelists mouth after tryin so hard to talk over him...Gary Montalbano has my up most respect and is one of the creators who inspired my art and my hustle...Gary is one of most professional people I have met in the animation industry.


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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:42 pm

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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:43 pm

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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby skynet » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:48 pm

Thanks for the videos. I wanted to be there just to watch but I couldn't make it. Although after seeing this much, I don't see what was the point of this event. The only observations that this debate seems to have revealed are the ones that I thought most every thinking person already knew about the union. I guess the only thing that people can see first hand is the indifferent behavior and lack of self control of the union representatives. It's interesting to watch. But it also goes along with the foolish and negligent attitude on full display on their web site so it's nothing that surprising. It's common for like to attract like.
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:50 pm

It's just one perspective. Depending on who you ask, it could be something totally different.

They should put their cut up. I'm sure there was security cameras like mine there.

Maybe we can motivate Chance to put a full unedited cut up for people who want to watch something without edits...cuz I'm bias. People should make up their own minds. Everyone's footage should be shared.

I mean, one of their defeatist anecdotes was about how people don't want to rock the boat. And it seemed like they felt more people needed to rock the boat...but then get mad when people rock the boat...and passively aggressively threaten to sue people if they do rock the boat...man, my head hurts just trying to reflect on it....

Afterwards I went up to the dude who called me an asshole, to thank him for giving me a platform to be heard and since I didn't know him I wanted to make sure my issues weren't personal...he just kinda stared and said "oooook" and returned a very limp hand shake...and when I walked away he laughed...wished I had that on video...these dudes, they are not leaders.

As someone who was and is a warrior and now is in a leadership type roll, they insult me with their emplied authority. I strive to become like others who have inspired me...my bar is set by those before me..and these dudes want you to bend over instead of reaching higher.

With all due respect....due

Someone in the audience used her board position with her HOA and she felt resentful that the members expected the board to solve all the problems...wtf? thats your job! The Union should be in the business of solving the problems, putting the big picture in place..but it was so painfully obvious that this leadership had no direction, no tolerance, or inclination as to what to do next.

I wouldn't even say old mentality. I'd say, lacking mentality.

And yes, this is coming from a NON UNION artist...who knows more about this Union then most of its members...payin their "dues"...which means to one of the panelist, getting fuked a couple times...

good luck!
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:19 pm

My final cut is MUCH longer then I prefer. I originally wanted to cut just a five minute montage of the classy stuff said and leave it at that. ...hahaha...but it was all so funny to me.

I don't expect them to care who I am,after 12 years of acting like I'm no one, but the way they dismissed the points I was making spoke volumes...to me at least...cuz those points where dope. made by better people then me, before me. I just shared them in my own way...But I know it's common not to want to rock the boat...the union reps on the panel all cited many anecdotes how thats a common theme in their community of "joiners"...while us dogs bark as the parade passes us by....hahahahaha. But I had to share this with the people ...Man, this is all so comical. Surreal.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not surprised. Not at all. And from the majority of conversations I have with my bruthas and sistas who work top tier positions in Union shops, where I have been offered top tier positions as well, none of them have illusions of what the union is...even if they don't know the specifics, they know the only reason they are union is cuz "A" they have to if they want to work for a mainstream studio or on intellectual properties that inspire them from their child hood or "B" cuz the benefits are good.

Coming from a place where I've had and have opportunities to work for non union and union shops, I find I negotiate my own deals most the time and have a lawyer for other stuff.And my rates compete, if not are more then union "joiners" rates...at times. Eb and flow. Tis the nature of the business. Ask anyone union or not.

So my only position in all this is to call it like is. And since I participate in AN and had to deal with people coming here to make it personal, I have added entertainment interest to reveal the frauds. I like to reveal illusions...so people can choose their illusion with due diligence and not by blind movement. Bumping into walls. Tripping over traps...

Just realizing that the Animation Union and the way its set up is a monopoly....reveals much.

People coming together to help each other is good.

Strength in numbers,Good
but not when you're only as strong as your weakest link. Thats where leaders come into play. They raise the bar, not lower it to cater to the weakest link...and even worse when the leaders end up being the weakest link.

"You can't just change law."

SING! the song of the castrated slave.
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:11 pm

Thanks for doing this bro. Editing and prepping the video was a lot of work. You've given the community a glimpse at what went down last October 21. Something we would never see from theses guys.

I'd like to leave an extended commentary regarding my feelings about the event and I will soon. I want to think about it a little more before I do. I appreciate everything you've done to share this with others. Sure is markedly different than what the Guild's business rep described on their blog. The truth often is when it comes to their rendition of things.

Thanks again for this dedicated effort Snakebite. If there was anyone with your caliber of guts, determination and considerate character involved in the leadership of the animation union things would be very different.
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:02 pm

You know you have inspired me bro, but even more what you created with AN inspired me to participate. You put your neck on the chopping block for a long time. For some people who didn't even understand why you were doing it yet still felt the need to assassinate your character. And after 20 years in the game now, comic books, publication, animation, production, video games, fashion, jewelry, internet development...the list is pretty long now..I see how people turn on those who choose to shine instead of taking lack of action out of fear...

But even more so the caliber of creators who come to AnimationNation. It was so clear to me after this meeting then I went to an AN night and it was night and day...and just last night I watched Dark Crystal for the first time since I was a kid and it smacked me in the face again that our industry always tells metaphorical allagories of itself...

So these creators who come to AN inspired me more then anyone to speak up. I got a little excited but mostly cuz my old reactionary ways wanted me to show them who REALLY could be the biggest punk ass. There was so many levels of disrespect and it wasn't coming from me. no matter how loud I got or how much I spoke over their words. because their words were disrespectful, and I truly believe they really don't understand this. I believe they are so in their system and they have experienced many levels of abuse themselves that this is all they know.

I walked away feeling good that I said what I said..and I walked away feeling sorry for them. And feeling embarrassed for 839's "joiners"..you guys have poor leaders. I don't care what they say, 839 is the leaders. They set the pace. The rest of you all just do what you're told for the most part..and I get it, cuz they make it hard to do anything else..and when the work load is hard enough, who wants to do another persons job?...that they should do...cuz it's their job...
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:50 pm

for those of you who want to see how I document pretty much everything I do, please click here

http://vimeo.com/snakebite
or here
http://www.youtube.com/user/MistaBite
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:47 pm

I think that best describes my sentiments. I feel sorry for these guys, along with with disappointment, and a touch of something that feels like hopelessness. I can understand why so many people don't care. The irony of it all is that the apathy of the vast majority in animation makes it possible for these guys to continue to thrive. On the one hand, they complain about their members not getting involved. On the other hand, why would they want their members to get involved if it meant the end of their control over this union.

The colossal anachronism of the leadership of the Animation Guild. They ride the past and pretend like they're some militant pro-worker labor group but in reality they're a benefits management group that hasn't had any real power or significant influence since 1979. They got their asses handed to them in the strike of 1982. In reality, this modern day version of the animation union is all about not rocking the boat. I don't see these guys challenging the system. It's more about keeping everyone in their place.

I think that's a big contributing factor why you see so much unpaid overtime at their studios. That's why so few artists in animation stand up for themselves cuz they know chances are they'll be standing alone.

They'll yell at you, personally insult you, use bravado, do just about anything to make it seem that their critics are the ones with the problem when in fact they're chronically dysfunctional and have been that way for a long time. Just watch Snakebite's video if you want to see this tactic in action.

For me, I find satisfaction and some closure in knowing that folks can watch these guys and see for themselves what they're all about. Especially in regards to the union meeting I was invited to attend on September 30, 2008 when I witnessed their business rep dealing with Guild members who asked for assistance with release forms they were required to sign when submitting their portfolios to Disney. The Guild tried to portray my description of what I saw as a gross misrepresentation of what went down that night. I think people can get a better idea of what really happened by watching their behavior this past October 21.
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:29 pm

My attitude changed when I arrived at the union's building for the debate and saw the guys I was going to be sharing the panel with. Physically they were in bad shape. When I saw how unhealthy they appeared, I felt sorry for them.

Something else that struck me that night and which is worth mentioning. The current president of the union was in attendance, and sat in the back of the room not saying a word.

I wonder if I'm the only one who thinks it's odd, that of the three guys who represented the animation union at this event, two of them were writers.

Also, hardly anyone from the union showed up for the debate. I don't know why there weren't more Guild members present. Of what, 3,000 plus members of the Animation Guild, that more than a small handful would show up to participate in something like this?
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:25 pm

Yeah, I was told after the event that the Union President was there. I wondered why the old union president was up there and not him...but immediately dismissed my question because really...it didn't matter.

But never the less found it strange.

It's easy to set the pace, standard and illusion of the dynamics of such meetings with such little participation on the "joiners" part. If more people where there from the studios it would be harder to let everyone think that they are in control, or that they do anything besides maintain health benefits for all the "joiners" who pay for the rent on their big impressive building.

IATSE is their umbrella corp even though they try to paint the picture that they are individual organizations...#839, means you're 839th union in the organization. that should tell you something...like, they are ONE big corporation that has the monopoly on your careers.

good luck!
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:54 pm

The man asking questions in this video I have been following for a couple years now. He's got a great series of videos out there and asks some real tough questions and challenges people to think for themselves.

This particular video reminded me of my encounter with the Animation Union, Local 839...

whenever I had a question in regards to reform the Union's panel would always say it was federal law...like federal law was something that made people do things that weren't right and out of their control.
we're all in control. We all have choices.

anyways, check the video and check out Danny's other shorts. They're really good and I never feel like I'm being preached to.

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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:38 pm

I decided to edit my comments above some time after I posted them so they wouldn't appear as antagonistic. It's difficult with these guys cuz everything is seen as antagonistic. Everything becomes personal.

Something else that I find baffling is how they dismiss any suggestions as to how to improve the union or make things better for everyone. Look at what they get away with. And nothing happens as a result. They can behave any way they want, they can do as much or as little as they want, and they'll still get their money. To me and to many others, that's another reason why I have no faith, confidence or hope in this crew. There's nothing to balance it out. There's no system of checks and balances that rewards good, considerate leadership as well as exacting a price for pretty much being the way they are. They've been this way for years and nothing changes. It only gets worse.

It would be so cool to have a union that believed in unity. That was pro-active and reached out to everyone. A union that had some first class leadership. A union that wasn't a negative, fear based organization, one which had some gratitude and appreciated the huge support that it got from independent groups such as AN instead of thinking of us as an adversary. All the years spent rallying for unity and encouraging people to join the Guild, all of this goodwill tossed away and destroyed.

We are not the enemy. How many times have I said that since the beginning of AN, and yet that's how they continue to think.

Nothing gets through to these guys. Nothing.

Someday, they'll all be gone and a whole new generation will take over. Hopefully, the union's tradition of hostility and intolerance will go with them and the ones who continue will be a higher breed of professionals.
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:37 pm

I just don't think there's any point in censoring what we say, C. No matter what we say and how we say it, at least its about questioning what doesn't work while empowering people into following their truths and to see the real.

These guys should start considering self censorship...man, I could only imagine if I was young and at that meeting..I would of "A" been depressed or "B" been kicked out for calling them all a bunch of pussies...cuz thats what my younger self would of done. So considering where I come from, I was very much acting with much respect to people who had none.

That meeting actually made me stronger in my position and even more unapologetic for anything I have said of done up to this point.

When a bad person walks in your yard a good watch dog doesn't just bark, it bites!

RUFF RUFF, BITE!
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:24 pm

I've been following this cat too. His name is Charlie Veitch..Charlie and Danny from previous video rolled together for some time but then went separate ways because of their difference of approach...although they still have mad respect for each other.AND they are both about speaking their truth and questioning the way we are programmed and how we think...or don't think.

I relate to what he says in this video and anyone who speaks their truth will relate too...

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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:50 am

Thanks for that video. As someone who's directly experienced what he's talking about, I completely relate to it.

What makes this all the more poignant is that the biggest sponsor of hate mentality in the animation community is the industry's union, the Animation Guild.

According to Steve Hulett at the end of the Oct 21 debate, the Guild must have a meeting of their executive board to decide whether or not to moderate the hate comments from their blog. Another symptom of the chronic dysfunction of this organization. Since most of the hate is targeted towards me and others here on AN, I don't see that happening any time soon, especially since Hulett pretty much runs their blog as well as controls the union. It's far too beneficial for the Guild in its present state of screwed-upedness to sponsor anonymous hate on the comments section of the blog. It's convenient to let an irrational, malicious element do their dirty work instead of engaging in considerate, reasonable discourse.

What I edited from my previous post were comments along the lines of the Guild being the lamest union in the entire entertainment industry. Also, that my recent conversations with the United Steelworkers provided a very clear contrast between a real union and something that poses as one. There were a couple of other things as well but it's okay. It really doesn't matter anymore. Nothing will make a difference with them. Being nice or trying to soften one's approach makes no difference. They're committed to the low road.

Yelling, threatening, flipping people off in public gatherings, harboring hate, that's the leadership of the Guild. Indifference, fear, misguided anger, that's the body politic of the organization. No new ideas, no plan for the future. Nothing but hot air from cold people.

There's a huge community of animation today that goes beyond the Guild, full of talented individuals who are a cut above the status quo. I choose to look in that direction.
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:18 pm

I have to say, I really love the part where i get flipped off. I don't even know Jerry. You can't really hear him say "shutup" to me. Which is the reason I original put the camera on him...just really an unattractive moment in my life....and I like it when people give me the bird, cuz the bird, it's the word...

I'm about to share the video on other platforms. I thought it was important to view here. But I think I'm gonna submit it to Animation Magazine and a few other online promotional platforms.

People need to see the leaders behind their "dues"
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby Charles » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:32 pm

You stirred the wrath of the elitist geeks with your questioning bro.

I wonder what would happen if he did that to you on the street. :lol: ;)

And people wonder why we have a problem with cartoonbrew. Actually, it's the other way around and been that way since the beginning.

People see the truth, especially when it's obvious.

This debate was the last in a long series of formative events for me. I can walk away from the waste of time these guys have become and move on to bigger and better things that benefit more people.
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Re: IBITE_JOURNAL_OPENFORUMCLOSEDUNION

Postby SNAKEBITE » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:08 pm

I don't even read Cartoon Brew so I have no issues with Jerry...again, I don't know him other then our dealings here on AN.

I would have to say, if that man approached me on the street I would bet the money in my pocket the dude wouldn't be so ballsy...and if he was, I would probably just laugh and keep moving...now, if I was in my 20s and he did that on the street most likely he wouldn't of...hahahaha

It's typical of fear based belief systems to feed off each others fears and react in very non proactive ways...thats why unions don't mean s*** if the members are weak.

They need to be individually strong in order to be strong when they come together.

Incidentally I had some cool holiday gatherings with lots of different and new people this week.
A few which worked in animation. High positions. Prestigious positions. Artists. Concept guys. Knew a lot of the same people I knew...One of which reads AnimationNation...I told him about the Union meeting and what I captured on film...he said "good for you, we need more of that"...he had no illusions of what the Union is...and again, this dude is no bull. They can dismiss me because I'm not union, but this dude was Disney now he's Dreamworks. He was surprised and happy I got the footage I got.
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