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Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Share your views on the state of the Animation Industry.

Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby EAllen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:07 pm

Charles, I have not had a fraction of the experiences with the Guild that you have, and most of what I know of AN's relationship with the Guild comes from all the stories you told me, including Bite's near-physical confrontation with one of the Guild reps, which I then researched (even though I didn't really have to, words from you guys are solid) and it all made sense afterwards, everything you were telling me.

So yeah, Charles and Bite, I write in comparison to all of your collective experiences from a standpoint of ignorance.


I also write from a standpoint of hope, just like I still hope that you will come to another set of favorable terms with another animation-centric organization, ASIFA!

As far as I'm concerned, hope springs eternal and that's why I keep coming back to this topic, that's why I keep writing. I keep hoping and doing what I can. I think if this topic goes on long enough, more animation guys, maybe Guild guys--I dunno--will bring more truths to light, and that's when the mending process will begin. Note that I didn't say we'll be singing kumbaya or even completely be good with each other from that point on--it's that we'll be less aggro to each other, and that in itself, to me, makes this a worthy enough endeavor.

Like I wrote in my response to Bite on the 19th, "As time goes on, things will come to light and we'll understand and wise up." My belief in this is unshakable.

I want to repeat, there are better alternatives, some of which Bite already touched upon, so I won't rewrite it here. But I'm saying for this particular situation, as Charles said, as long as the Guild functions like a Union, it's kinda is what it is. I kinda doubt the Guild, even at what it's charging, is making much of a profit (like, corporate-sized), but I don't adjust their accounting books so I can't speak on that.

Your past relationships and interactions have set the stage for the state of your current ones, Charles, and that's understandable. I don't know, as you said, the whole story as you have lived it. It is fairly well-documented, though. I can only infer based on the accessible and available evidence, and of course stories orally told by you, Bite and other key surviving players.

If you didn't speak out, Charles, things would never have changed to the extent they have. And that is what it really means to be strong and independent.

One more thing. I see Bite also being more moderate than in the past. Bite, something's working here. That's killer (for lack of a better term). At first, I couldn't believe what I was reading--

MAYBE and I mean, maybe at one point it was needed..but everything I hear and everything I see are always two different things about the good in the industry.


The moment I read that, I almost saw you coming over to what I was feeling Bite. That's boss, dude. Your above quote got me thinking, "Now if only Bite could see the things I was imagining, based on what's happening now, maybe he'd get why I was so intent on believing in the feasibility of a civil co-existence among pro-and-not-so-pro-Guild artists."

But again, Bite, I'm really happy you nearly got there. That alone proved me wrong. Until now, I couldn't imagine, given your controversial nature (remember, last year I actually worried out loud your employment prospects, and wrote as much--funny as hell--still I worry) you'd give that much of an inch on this subject. But first some of your posts above, and then the above quote . . . hmmmmmmmmm . . .

I guess, then, this is as it should be. If the Guild continues to go China on you, Charles, by castigating you merely for speaking your mind, then yeah I agree--preach on! But even SteveK said in a post that the Guild has been called way worse names than you could ever call them, so it's actually kinda confusing as to how they would take anything you would say the wrong way.

Ah, the Guild holiday parties! Didn't attend one myself, but looked at all of those postings you put on the old forum. What a festive environment. Charles, you're actually helping me out by reposting this stuff.

Kinda reminded of what Skynet always said about the power of positive spirits and the way the universe plays a role in those dynamics. If you will something with all your force into being, eventually it comes to be. That skynet, I always knew he was onto something. ;)
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby SNAKEBITE » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:20 pm

You're funny, Enoch.lol but I appreciate your good vibes..

I have to say though, I have always said in the past that maybe the union was needed...always emphasis on MAYBE
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby EAllen » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:03 pm

Still, Bite, a step forward even if it's a reiteration!

One small step . . .
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby paburrows » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:10 am

Hey the Guild elections are coming up. Maybe Charles, Snakebite or someone else here can run and make some changes?



http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/challenge-to-membership-by-tom-sito.html
A challenge to the membership, by Tom Sito

Artist: Hans Bacher
Dear Members:

Long before I was involved in union politics, I was as bad as anyone else about attending regular union meetings. But the one meeting I did made sure to attend was the one every three years that nominates candidates for office. These people are the ones who will spearhead policy for our Guild for the next three years. They will be heading up our negotiations with the studios, they are the ones who vote on many important issues. So even if you don't give a damn about anything else the Guild does, it's pretty important for you and your family's well being to attend this meeting.

President Kevin Koch, Business Rep Steve Hulett and the current Executive Board have done a terrific job these last years. But as the Roman writer Ovid said, "Omnias mutantor" - all things change. Some officers may step down, new officers will step up. Many of the Executive Board have been serving for many years, and they are to be commended for it. It's a non-salaried job that yields little benefit for one's own career, it doesn't help them get work or get paid more. They do it because they care.

But now, as our triennial elections are upon us, we could always use some new blood. A majority of our Executive Board are baby boomer generation. How about folks representing Generation X and Y running for office? How about some of you from games and CG efx? The more parts of our industry and demographic are represented, the more relevant our guild, and the more likely your issues will be addressed.

President Koch and I are living examples of how an individual who cares can effect change. I gave it nine years, and it didn't hurt my career. I'm as proud of my time as your president as I am of any of the movies I animated on, or any of the TV shows I directed.

Your 401K, the IAP accounts, our beautiful Guild headquarters and Gallery 839, more CG artists represented than any other group in the world, same-sex medical benefits, CG re-education for traditional artists. All these good things came about because people took the time from their careers to care. For Executive Board members, it only requires one Tuesday night from you a month.

In all our news, we hear of workers' rights under attack. Overtime cut, compensation cut, healthcare safety nets under assault. Employers getting away with it all and laughing at the law. Instead of just bitching on blogs that nobody is doing anything, why not step up and be part of the solution? You wouldn't give your wallet to a stranger, why leave such important issues to people you don't know? Corporations are not democracies, but our Guild is. Leo Tolstoy wrote: "If evil people can work together to get what they want, why can't good people work together to get what they want?"

On Tuesday night, please do us all a favor and join in the discussion. Run for office, nominate good people, be part of the vote. Join in for your family's sake. Join in for your friends' sake. 839 is not "that union". It is YOU and ME. It is OUR GUILD.

Take hold of it, and make of it what you want.

--Tom Sito President Emeritus, The Animation Guild


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GENERAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 2010 6:30 pm, pizza & refreshments 7 pm, meeting 1105 N. HOLLYWOOD WAY, BURBANK (between Magnolia and Chandler)

AGENDA:
•Nominations for election of Animation Guild officers
◦President
◦Vice-President
◦Business Representative
◦Recording Secretary
◦Sergeant-At-Arms
◦Executive Board (11 positions)
•Discussion and vote on the budget for the next TAG party
•Panel discussion and demonstration on earthquake preparedness, hosted by KAREN NUGENT and JOHN CATALDI and featuring JEFF EDELSTEIN of SOS Survival Products and DONNA NUZZI, Emergency Services supervisor of the city of Santa Clarita
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby Charles » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:02 pm

Thanks for posting that Paul.

In February, 1999, when I was preparing to launch AN and just as importantly, organize the first AN meeting for April 1 of that year, among the very first people I got in touch with was Tom Sito. We met for lunch at the Coral Cafe in Burbank. I asked a lot of questions and shared with Tom my plan for The Great Alliance meeting. Keep in mind at this time, the first wave of layoffs of artists were getting under way after many years of the Second Golden Age.

Tom's response was that the union couldn't do anything to help because of the no-strike clause. It they got behind this it may appear as a protest and they could be in violation of their contract with the studios. So he called it a grass roots movement and gave it his blessing, and to his credit, showed up at that April 1 meeting and also became an early member of AN.

In 2006, when his book "Drawing the Line" was published, which dealt with the history of the labor movement in animation and included modern times, his only reference to AN was as a popular message board which animation artists used for calling executives monkeys. Page 35. Everything that really made up the AN movement was completely omitted from his book.

So my perspective on his rally regarding their upcoming elections is somewhat different than what others may get from it.

I find it difficult to get inspired by his call for guild members to actually get involved with the guild. Especially with all the experiences I've had with them the past few years and as recently as this very topic. It's been difficult to get folks enthusiastic about an AN Night with the guild, and I find it no surprise that even their own members show little interest in what's going on aside from the management of their benefits, according to the content of Mr. Sito's message. Maybe this will be the year that things change for them, as Tom quoted Ovid.

I wish them luck. AN has always been in their corner.
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:22 pm

Enoch, I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no steps closer to anything on my part other then my own salvation. With the Union thing, and ASIFA, I'm merely observing pointing out the obvious.
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:25 pm

"You wouldn't give your wallet to a stranger, why leave such important issues to people you don't know?"

Yes, I agree. This is the fundamental reason why I don't take Union jobs. Why give my wallet to a stranger in order to be able to work? makes no sense.

good luck.
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby EAllen » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:28 pm

You know Bite, we talk about sensing positive vibes coming from each other, and how that influences our perception of the person the vibes originate from. I sensed that from the declining amount of invective your latest posts contain vs. the classic rock 'em sock 'em posts that used to get me and my mom excited over your s#@t.

Bite, whenever you had a beef with something or someone on the forums in the past, you addressed and it was more akin to Jerry Springer when you did than anything else. Compare your posts over the last few weeks to then--the difference slaps me in the face & pummels me into submission.

To make a completely tasteless joke, you'd have to be Stevie Wonder to not see it!

Hope springs eternal, Bite!

To add to this Charles & Bite, I just met with Steve Kaplan at the Coral Cafe this afternoon to talk about some of the ongoing issues you guys still have with the Guild.

1.) SteveK pledges to look into a matter concerning studios using portfolio submissions in commercial projects;

2.) He maintains everyone who's anyone can come to Guild Christmas parties (don't need to be a member in good standing). I said I'd try to make this one coming up.

3.) I know the link on the TAG blog, is a done deal, but . . . Steve's optimistic that the link will make a re-appearance sooner than anyone thinks, though not at the speed of light. I know it sounds cryptic, but . . .


The lunch was very positive, very informative and uplifting. Also ran into Jerry Beck as well!

There's a substantial amount of well-wishing going on for AN, Charles. We'll talk more about it tomorrow night!
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:29 pm

Man, that stings Enoch. Sienfeld? I reminded you of that guy? ouch that hurt bro. I don't understand your position with me. It sounds as if you're disappointed. But I really can't say how any of my current positions is any different from my past. If anything I have chilled out a bit because people are very sensitive. Just know any venom that you might of read was never directed at you. Or any one person. General attitudes is what I usually make fun of. Unless someone is coming at me on a personal note.

You can still be positive and point out silliness. I'm sorry, positive vibes does not mean happy talk.

But I would never beat down on you. I think you're mistaken my response to the issue as my response to you. THe issue is older then you and when people bring it up like I need to look at it differently I really lose all interests. I've been looking at it from many angles. I think the problem is the status quo needs to look at it differently. And I'm not trying to lump Enoch in with status quo, he's unique, but I do believe his desire to get me to see it a certain way is not needed. I'm cool. I get it. I have my opinion. Deeds not words. Ya know. Mega Force! lol

Hope may spring eternal, but courage is what I'm feeling. I feel hope is for the powerless. Courage is what is needed to make true change. With all due respect. thats my personal philosophy, not my judgment on anyone.

Also, Enoch, my cosmic man of good will, let me address your other points using the same numbers in relation to your post.

1) I have no idea what you're talking about here? Was there a challenge to do this?

2)No one ever said the Union's Christmas party is for Union members only. SO again, I don't know why that was brought up.

3)That has never been the real issue. We're not waiting for it to come back up. The issue was the Union showed their true colors.

the other part about well wishes...lol..man, I got nothing. that's just funny. nothing to do with you Enoch, don't take it personal. It's not about you at all.

But I will say, if you're doing it for you then cool. Don't do it for me or even AN. Do you bro. Just know we're not needing this. And on a personal note, that won't solve the true problem.

Respect
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby Charles » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:29 am

I've attempted to keep AN a positive, progressive venue for the animation community. Sometimes that hasn't been the case as it's easy to fall into the negativity that can make its way on the forums from time to time.

The Guild has been a source of negativity on AN for several years now. They need to adapt to a positive, professional, progressive environment, free from insults and innuendos. That includes developing a skin that is thick enough to withstand the occasional unflattering commentaries, warranted or not, without resorting to name calling and the censoring of our site from their blog and indeed, from their recent history. We maintain editorial standards on AN that took us a long time to develop. Most if not all major sites and blogs in the online animation community maintain some sort of editorial standard. Moderated commentary is the norm, not the exception. You can have freedom of speech while making sure that trolls do not call highly accomplished and respected professionals in their field douchebags, while their own high ranking representatives accuse others of hate when their organization is justifiably scrutinized.

It is not a crime against the Guild to entertain a discussion about an independent or alternative union.

Without making an adjustment towards professionalism, I don't see how a relationship between AN and the Guild can be maintained, or even if it would be in our best interest to maintain it. What they're looking for is a relationship on their terms, which is simply not possible for us unless they change. They need to adapt and grow. Even Sito acknowledges this in his comments posted above by paburrows.

We're just an online message board, but they're the union that represents the highest level of talent in the American animation industry, and their behavior here has been anything but reflective of that distinction. They need to take the higher road. They need to grow out of the attitude that has unfortunately become their trademark.

Maybe then their own membership will be motivated enough to get involved in the affairs of their union. With the elections coming up, it's as good a time as we'll ever see for a new beginning for the organization. I hope that will be the case and perhaps we'll see a refreshed Animation Guild as a result.
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby EAllen » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:50 pm

Didn't mean to offend you Bite!


Jerry Springer is the name of the talk show host who hosted a talk show before it descended into a fisticuffs circus! People were allowed to physically confront each other on the show as long as security was present.

Some say the altercations were staged, y'know, like wrestling!

Bite, you can say whatever you want about the Guild, against the Guild, and that is what makes this America. There are people who want AN to speak out against the Guild--that keeps them in check regarding policies and the like.

I still look forward to your posts--controversial or not, Bite!

And buying your artwork will still remain a key goal of mine, as I will tell you when I get to AN tonight!
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby paburrows » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:06 pm

Looks like the Union nominees have been choosen.


TAG Election 2010: The Slate
Below the fold is the list of nominees for this year's officer election ...

PRESIDENT

•Bob Foster (incumbent Executive Board member; unopposed)
VICE-PRESIDENT

•Earl Kress (incumbent; unopposed)
BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVE
•Steve Hulett (incumbent)
•Karen Nugent (incumbent Executive Board member)
RECORDING SECRETARY

•Jeff Massie (incumbent; unopposed)
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS

•Jan Browning (incumbent; unopposed)
EXECUTIVE BOARD (11 positions)

•Bronwen Barry (incumbent)
•John Cataldi (incumbent)
•Nicole Dubuc (incumbent)
•Janette Hulett (incumbent)
•Karen Carnegie Johnson (incumbent)
•Cathy Jones (incumbent)
•Gordon Kent
•Nathan Loofbourrow
•Kevin Moore
•Mike Roth
•Chris Simmons
•Eugene Son
•Jack Thomas
Ballots will be mailed to all active members on October 8. You must have all dues and fees (including fourth quarter 2010) paid by noon on November 12, 2010 for your ballot to be counted. Ballots will be counted on November 13.
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby Charles » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:58 pm

I've met Bob Foster before and I recall he attended a few AN Nights. My impression of him is positive and I think he'll be a good president. I suspect he'll bring a level of maturity to the office that's been missing for a while.

Congrats on the nomination and good luck to all.

Thanks for updating us Paul.
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby SNAKEBITE » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:33 pm

you didn't really offend me, Enoch. Although, Springer isn't any better of a comparison. jerky.lol
it's all good. I eat meat.hahahaha(inside joke between me and Enoch)
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby EAllen » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:56 pm

Yeah, that's right Bite, I'm jerky.

Don't Bite into my Jerky! . . . Damn, that's really, um--don't take that the wrong way there, not gay or anything . . . :mrgreen:
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby SNAKEBITE » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:22 pm

it would be OK if you were.
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby EAllen » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:34 pm

I'm sure it would be Bite.

However, I've been obsessed over the female form since puberty kicked in, in my late teens (gonna own up to that 'fore my mom beats me to the punch). I like too many girls, too much.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that either!
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby SNAKEBITE » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:59 pm

I'm just sayin'...I'm really attractive. I could see why men would turn gay for me. lol
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Re: Questions regarding The Animation Guild

Postby Charles » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:53 pm

Not only have I seen Bob Foster at AN Nights before, I had a chance to speak with him last May at the Guild's building in Burbank the evening that Floyd "Mr. Fun" Norman was being featured. He seems like a man with a good spirit. I'd vote for him if I was able to vote in their election. Good luck Bob, best wishes.
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