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Who's been working at one place the longest?

Share your views on the state of the Animation Industry.

Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby Charles » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:41 am

I'm curious as to who the community thinks has been employed at one place in animation the longest.

In the environment that we're in with so many people losing their jobs in animation, VFX, so on, who do you think has been employed at one particular location longer than just about anyone working in animation?

Hint - My guess is it's not an artist nor is it a studio executive.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:45 am

only thing I could think of might be mebbe someone in the union?...
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby Charles » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:26 pm

That's a good guess Marius. Was thinking the same thing.

Anybody else that's been working at the same place in animation since the 1980s with no layoffs?
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:24 pm

This human sounds like he has witnessed a lot of change in the industry... and I respect his tenure and longevity, while I dislike the state of the industry. We can't crucify each other. It's non productive. You yourself have pointed out how inactive many artists are on union matters... is that one person's fault... or the fault of the many? Or all of the above.... we should celebrate anyone's successes, and work with them to further them. if we all do that for each other, the we won't have to do it for ourselves. selfless over selfish... it's the only RATIONAL thing to do. It's important for us to remember. WE need to help each other... the union needs help. Sure, from the members... but more form the leaders of the industry. The "heroes". It needs a representative from the creative and the executive to negotiate, discuss, meet at some place with rationale. The industry needs a business plan. In five years.. where does it see itself? I am asked that on job interviews, I feel it fair to ask the industry. Answering it shows forethought to the future... so... where's the fore thought...The union is the shepherd to keep us on course, but we, the artists and executives are tasked with defining the course. without our involvement... I just don't see the good in villainizing the union... it's just sitting there, neither helpful nor hurtful... it's a true representation.. of the masses it embodies...
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby Charles » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:00 am

The union needs an overhaul and that can only come from new leadership. As long as union artists don't get involved and don't stay on top of the situation you wind up with what you've currently have with the Animation Guild. An ineffective organization that is controlled by an entrenched hierarchy that is not subject to the same forces that would prevail in a free market system.

It's time that the next generation of union animation artists take control. The old guard needs to be replaced by new energy and new ideas. Entrenched union leadership is failing many people. What they've gotten away with all these years is shameful. It's even more shameful that union artists let it get this bad.

What will it take to motivate new leadership within the organization whose purpose it is to lead?

So much potential being wasted by apathy and indifference.

It's way past time for a change!
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby SNAKEBITE » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:58 pm

We need evolution. Progress. And even though I am not union member and I'm a self sustaining model, I believe the health of my environment is important to my progress. Selfishness is making sure the people around me prosper so I don't have to worry about them being desperate. Because desperate people do stupid s***...

In the case of the Union and AN I have seen the fig leaf has been offered from AN and Charles...and yes the fist has been offered as well. Alot of the time by me because the system is corrupt and passive aggressive. But I will say with confidence, what I see from Charles and his mission with AN is that he has experienced much resistance when being peaceful yet critical. I've seen malicious resistance. Character assassination and I've experienced my own. I see how the animation community is handled and I see who benefits. I see the monopolies and I see the mismanagement and corruption. No need to villainize when all you have to do is point it out. If it sounds like villainizing its not really the fault of the ones pointing it out. Corrupt is as corrupt does.

With my own understanding about constructs I have always seen things like Unions, Constitutions and organized social regulatory systems as designed to do the thing we bitch about. Because that is their intent. They get away with as much as they can. Corporations invest in these regulatory systems so they can work around them while individuals pay the greatest.

We can't even begin to restructure unity until we are real with ourselves...After all Unity means one. And if you, as one, can't be strong in yourself and be real with yourself and are not willing to do the work yourself then all coming together does is make you sheep. Easy targets.

If people want to raise the bar they have to be willing to reach for it. Raise up to it. And the challenge is clear. And If we can't at least call it what it is then no happy talk in the world will evolve the situation.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:59 pm

I understand. If the union really has no interest in reformation, then I suppose a new system will grow outside of it, and the old union will wither and die. Then all those people not wishing change will have their empire to be with to their end days. It just seems unfortunate. The cycle, it won't be broken til it's broken. I think there's a way, for everyone to win... but it has to start at peace. even if you were wronged... ESPECIALLY if you were wronged. Focus too much on the thing you hate, and you become it, so it's important to control the charge of your focus... don't be reactionary. The union is a system. The human in it is just a piece of the machinery not working properly. No need to get angry at it. Assess it as empirically as you can. Can it be fixed, tweaked, adjusted... before you look at removing it. If you can't remove it, design a workaround. All of that can help keep the focus in a positive direction. Humans are humans. You can't change them, only they can. Systems though, you can DEFINITELY change....change the system, or rewrite a future one, so that those humans that anger you, would not fit into it in the form they presently are. Anger can be a great fuel source for passion, but it can blur focus as well. Anger is also a reactionary emotion. I'm all down for talking about theory of change, thinking about the thought bits for how to implement change, and doing the work bits to help manifest change...but I'm not down to destroy anyone's life. I'm not down to blame anyone. It's all our fault it's this way, so we all have to just swallow that. Doesn't matter about the who's... the systems are the most important bit... the who's... they are all replaceable. In honesty ANY change in the union has HUGE ramifications in a LOT of people's lives, their kid's lives, their spouse's lives... it all has to be well thought out, and needs as many minds as it can get...
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby SNAKEBITE » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:32 pm

Anger was last decade. hahahaha We're too proactive to be angry. Even the video of me confronting them is not me being angry. I get passionate but was never angry. I had to speak over microphones and a stage setting. I think you'll find they are the ones that are angry. I mean arguing isn't anger. Even getting riled up, not really anger.

But I believe you must react! Reactionary followed up by proactionary is our responsibility.

I have always pointed the finger at myself. I believe AnimationNation's mission has been just that. Take responsibility for your partt!!..

And I have always seen its the complacent mentality of the people which has been the problem. I like to point out the nature of the animal. Not destroy it. Ignore it more like. I've never seen anything here on AN about destroying peoples lives.

If someone fires me because I'm not doing what I say, that is the balance. True law is do what you say, cause no one harm or loss. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be fired for not providing the services needed and asked. If there is corruption, incompetence. Its ones responsibility to react and proact.

I support the philosophy to build new systems. To share these ideas, ideas of how the current system isn't working and why its part of the process to self sustaining lifestyle.

True evolution comes with huge transitions. You can't point the finger at yourself without the willingness to really do something about it. So sacrifice is the name of that game. We ALL have to put food on the table we ALL have to pay the bills. This is not unique.

We use the word "change" too much. You don't need to manifest change, its already happening. Its naruee. Good and bad.. Losing your job is change. A car wreck...broken leg.."Change" is not something we should work for. "Evolution" is what I seek. That takes coming out of ones comfort zone.That word suggest SO much more then the word "change" and its WAY more specific with intention.

There's huge ramifications to not evolving.

I like to talk about the union. not to destroy it but to point out how its not working so more people will focus their intent on new structures. To not get invested in that old one. I have no power over anyone. I don't have initiation fees, benefits, job security or hourly requirements to have any of my benefits.;) Unlike the union and its monopoly over certain types of jobs. Which is an industry of people. All with different views and lifestyles.

Hell, I'd rather you all just brand yourself and find your independent economies. Much more efficient use of time and space.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:42 pm

I respect your view, and I'm sorry if I misread the vibe.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby SNAKEBITE » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:37 pm

Don't mistake the long response for anything but one man talking. There's some subjects I like to expand more on then others. I don't participate on AN as much as I should, but certain topics move me...hahaha

Freedom, one brother talking.

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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:09 pm

I understand sir. I disagree with your stance on being reactionary. In my life dictionary true freedom comes from true control of decisions. You ahve true control of decisions when you have a true plan to base those decisions on. You always have a course.. when you decide your fate... reactionary.. is a state that seems chaotic, and unpredictable to me. I choose to plan away from it. I respect it's place, but chaos for me, makes an ill fit...I know that both you and charles, as well as animation nation's energy flows in a similar direction of mine. I really do understand what you are saying. I'm going to do some things first, and try to return with a way to better express what I am trying to say. I am 100% on board with you, I'm at the step right after artist's all get empowered through their audiences... I'm at the then what bit... there will be an industry following, VERY much like the one we have... print, toys... all that s***... I'm at the then what bit.. after you have your money and play... what do you leave behind...
Either way, I have nothing but love for everyone...
And I appreciate the honest insights.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby Charles » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:03 am

My personal experience with the union in animation goes all the way back to 1982. In that time I've learned a lot of lessons. One of the things I've learned of late, especially in light of what I've seen since the founding of AN in 1999, is that this is an organization deeply in need of a transition.

There is no other area of our community that begs for reform more than the union. More accurately the leadership of this union.

I think we'll eventually be seeing some change / evolution. There's an election coming up later this year. I have a feeling we might see some young guys in the biz getting motivated to enough to at least learn about how the election process works. The old guard ain't gonna be there forever. Sooner or later new blood will come along with fresh ideas and energy.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Can someone tell me why the word reactionary is bad. I mean, I'm really into the etymology of words. And I find nothing wrong with the word. Other then the political stigma it carries because of adaptation of words into subcultures. But those definitions do not apply to me at the least. So I want to know. What makes the word so bad?
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:12 pm

Honestly sir, this might just be a personal belief, but to me reactionary means someone or something else is creating the action. It's an off balance position. Like in chess, when I find myself reactionary, I find myself losing...
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:39 pm

Actually spent some time on google sir, and I owe an apology. Word I meant was "reactive"... not "reactionary" :mrgreen:
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:54 pm

The action in this case is the Union. If you join thinking you can change it. Thats a reaction. May seem like action. But the action is the Union.

My reaction to that was to become the action.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby SNAKEBITE » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:56 pm

Semantics, all words mean the same. They are derived from the same root.
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Re: Who's been working at one place the longest?

Postby marius » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:27 pm

The action in my frame of reference, is the fractured industry. The Union is a system built to help guide it, that is failing in it's role. That's not all that surprising when one looks a bit more and see's artists failing in their roles, and executives failing in theirs. I find it hard to assign blame, so I choose to not. Instead, I focus on sollutions, and that leads me back to how do we all empower each other? Can there be a win win, for all parties involved in animation? I believe there can, but it involves all parties being involved in animation, together.
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