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Author Topic: YO JOE!!! G.I. JOE!!!!!!
OFFBEAT
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHTnHajmb9c
[Gary]

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Thomas
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The current word about this video is that it is fake. Nontheless it was retardly piss poor judgement by this group of soldiers to have done what they did. They'll apparently be severly chastised by their C.O.'s. Not to mention the crap they will get from their fellow servicemen.

This has been making the rounds on the various milblogs since earlier this week.


*Fixed spelling errors

[ March 06, 2008, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: The Mod ]

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OFFBEAT
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And this?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1be_1204379225

or this?
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2008/02/gallery_abu_ghraib?slide=3&sli deView=2

...I can keep going. All day.

This needs to be talked about. Not excused. People need to be angry as hell over this.

That puppy video is all over the news in Iran.

There are reasons why the world opposes us.

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I would say that those are not typical actions of the US military. The exploding dog video you posted doesn't give the context of what is happening. Though yes it is disturbing.

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Jasen
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.
.
.

I found this online... This was written by a ex-marine.
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.
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quote:
Idle Hands Do The Devil's Work.

Over the past few days I've had a lot of requests to comment on a video that recently surfaced, of the Marine in Iraq throwing a puppy off a cliff.

Puppy tossing video surfaced on the internet about, eh, three or four days ago. When I read the text of the link, I just sighed and moved on. You just know it's not a hoax, or a staged video. That yes, one of our guys did it. And me being very pro-military and pro-animal, this obviously puts me into an uncomfortable position. I'm watching an entity that I idolize beat up on an entity that I cherish. I guess this is how a little kid feels when he watches his father smack around his mom.

Looking back at Daisy, the dog who was set on fire because she repeatedly trespassed into a neighbor's yard, you can at least see the rationale behind the neighbor's actions. I'm not saying I understand them or that he was justified, but you can at least see where he was coming from. He had a goal in mind; to stop the dog from coming into his yard. And granted, dousing her with gasoline and setting her on fire is probably one of the most ****ed up and psychotic ways to achieve this goal, but at least there was a rational goal behind his irrational action. From the few snippets I've read describing this latest puppy tossing video, the Marine holds up a puppy whose paws have been tied, and then tosses the puppy off a cliff. And perhaps what frightens ms most about the thought of this is... there's no underlying rationale behind the decision to do so. With Daisy you had a sane idea being processed by an insane mind, resulting in an insane action. With this puppy, it's an insane idea right from the very start. it scares me to think this sort of person not only carries a loaded automatic weapon every day, but will one day be turned loose back on society.

If I had to try to make sense of what he did, it would be as follows. And I'm not trying to make up excuses, just trying to find some reasoning behind an unreasonable act. Every day our soldiers are subjected to an assault on their senses. If I walked down Main Street in Cape Coral and came across blown up building; it'd be a major event for the local news. There would be satellite trucks set up and reporters interviewing local residents, and all kinds of **** . But our soldier walk by these burned out buildings with their walls pock marked with bullet holes every day. If I walk into a restaurant, and a one legged boy hobbles up to me and begs for food, that would be an newsworthy event. The local merchants would team up and take donations, and the police would tape off a city block to hold a benefit concert. But our soldiers are surrounded by wounded kids every day, and for the most part, they're powerless to help them. If I'm pulling into a parking lot and four cops fire a burst of automatic weapons into my engine block before ordering me and my passengers out at gunpoint, not only is that making the news, but I'm mother****ing suing somebody. But this kind of thing happens every day in Iraq.

My point being, every day our soldiers are exposed to so many extraordinary things, that eventually the extraordinary becomes the ordinary. Events that would warrant fifteen people gathered around your cubicle so they could all listen to your story about the roadside explosion on your way to work that morning, just don't even register anymore. That's just a typical Monday morning to them. And let's be honest, from the footsoldier's point of view, there hasn't been any real progress in Iraq. By that I mean the scene never changes. It's not like World War II where in a span of six months a soldier could have fought in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France then Germany. In Iraq, they see the same streets, the same buildings, the same locals... every day. In fact, they probably see the same places they saw when they were deployed the year before. At some point, that has to take its toll.

Now granted, I'm not a psychologist, I'm just a fat guy trying to sit back and put myself in his shoes. I tried to imagine a reason why a professional solider would tie up an animal and throw it off a cliff. How does a healthy mind process that? What's the reason? He wasn't trying to keep it out of his yard. He had someone film it, so it obviously wasn't a spur of the moment decision. And the only reason I can come up with is... entertainment. That over the past two dozen or so months that he's been patrolling the same streets, driving around the same bomb craters, being shot at the same intersections, he's simply exhausted all other forms of recreation that he can think of. And the extraordinary being ordinary to him, the idea of throwing a puppy off a cliff didn't seem any more out of place than you or I skipping a stone across a pond.

The Marine in question has been identified and the Marines are investigating. Given the amount of public outcry and national media attention, I feel pretty comfortable the matter is going to find a just ending. They take that 'Conduct Unbecoming of a United States Marine' **** pretty seriously.

So that's it. That's the only thing I can think of. That's the only sense that my mind can make of an act of such cruelty. Because the alternative is he's just a sadistic, heartless mother****er, who himself should to be tied up and thrown off a cliff. And I'm not sure my mind is ready to embrace that idea just yet.



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Jasen
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quote:
I would say that those are not typical actions of the US military. The exploding dog video you posted doesn't give the context of what is happening. Though yes it is disturbing.
Absolutely NOT condoning this animal massacre. Most people that know me, know I'm a animal nut and if I wasn't doing artwork, i'd be a zoologist.
Now that that's out of the way, one thing to note is; that most dogs in Iraq are not owned by anyone. These dogs live from eating the dead soldiers.
I’m guessing after seeing these dogs run away with body parts takes a toll. I was watching a camera man talk about him seeing a dog running down the street with a human head in it’s mouth. My best friend from the Gulf War in 1992 said these dogs always ate the guts first, if the soldiers dead or even alive.
Similar to people living in bear infested areas don’t see bears as cute & cuddly. In fact I think someone even on this board posted some pics awhile back about bears in Colorado. And this is not the bears fault either.

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OFFBEAT
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This reminds me of all the priest molestation stories that came out a few years ago.. everyone wanted that hushed up real quick.. They said... Offbeat you don't know what you're talking about.. it's an isolated incident..

Yeah.. an Isolated incident of over 9,000 reports nationwide. but SHHHHHHH!

If it's wrong it's wrong. If it's means to an end.. that tells me that the mean was flawed and a better resolve has not been sought.

I've seen that jocko-homo mentality before in high school.. I know it well. Go to any sporting event.. it's everywhere.

Get a bunch of big buff jocks together, and throw in a 4ft tall kid that looks like Elton John with asthma.. and you can see it for yourself.

Now take those same guys and give them weapons, and you have a large % of our army.

And It's not just that soldier.. it's the soldier next to him that let that retard pick up the dog like that in the first place.. it's the retard behind the camera.. it's everyone who laughed at that video. It's everyone who shrugs and says "boys will be boys".. it's that opportunist douche bag we have in the oval office.. it's everyone who masterminded this invasion.

Our imperialistic invasion! To call it a war, would have required the country of Iraq to have attacked us.. and we declare war.. and they declare back.

Well.. this money making scheme has costed one more life. I hope the bigshots who benefitting from all of our soldier's lives and lost of humanity appreciates it! Hope it buys them a big fat gold and diamond encrusted jetski that gets 2 miles per gallon!! Yeee Haw! God bless America! Yeee diggity Dog!!! (shoots guns in the sky)

Our country needs to bring back the confederate flag.. it's getting to be that intellectually void.

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Jasen
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Guantánamo Guards Suffer Psychological Trauma - Post Media Reply
Washington, DC - The guards at the Guantánamo Bay prison camp are the "overlooked victims" of America's controversial detention facility in Cuba, according to a psychiatrist who has treated some of them.

In some cases, a tour of duty at the camp has made guards suicidal and prompted a variety of psychiatric symptoms, from depression and insomnia to flashbacks. The guards' testimony also provides a harrowing insight into the treatment of prisoners.

Professor John Smith, a retired US Air Force captain, treated a patient who was a guard at the camp. "I think the guards of Guantánamo are an overlooked group of victims," Smith told the American Academy of Forensic Sciences annual meeting in Washington DC on Saturday. "They do not complain a lot. You do not hear about them."

The patient ('Mr H') is a national guardsman in his early 40s who was sent to Guantánamo in the first months of its operation, when prisoners captured in Afghanistan were beginning to flood into the camp. Mr H reported that he found conditions at the camp extremely disturbing. For example, in the first month two detainees and two prison guards committed suicide.

Painful Positions

The taunts of prisoners and the things his superiors required him to do to them had a severe psychological impact on Mr H. "He was called upon to bring detainees, enemy combatants, to certain places and to see that they were handcuffed in particularly painful and difficult positions, usually naked, in anticipation of their interrogation," said Smith.

On occasion he was told to make prisoners kneel, naked and handcuffed, on sharp stones. To avoid interrogation the prisoners would often rub their wounds afterwards to make them worse so that they would be taken to hospital.

Some of the techniques used by interrogators resulted in detainees defecating, urinating, vomiting and screaming.

Mr H told Smith he felt profoundly guilty about his participation. "It was wrong what we did," he said.

The prisoners also threatened Mr H. "They would tell him they had networks of people throughout the world," said Smith. "If he did not take letters out and mail them then they would see to it that his family suffered the consequences."

Flashbacks and Depression

When he returned to the US he was suffering from panic attacks, insomnia, nightmares, flashbacks and depression.

Another guard whom Smith treated described an incident in which a prisoner had hanged himself in his cell after partially gnawing his own arm off. The prisoner lost a substantial amount of blood but was cut down by guards and survived.

Amnesty International UK spokesperson Neil Durkin pointed out that the psychological trauma inflicted on the Guantánamo inmates should not be overlooked. "With numerous suicide attempts and reports of Guantánamo prisoners on the edge of psychosis, we are extremely concerned that even those eventually released from the camp will be mentally scarred for the rest of their lives," he said. "Over 200 of the Guantánamo prisoners are now held in solitary confinement - and after years of detention without charge or trial this is taking a heavy toll."

There have been few scientific studies of the psychological effects of working as a prison guard, but classic experiments in the 1960s and 1970s showed how easy it is to prompt ordinary people to perpetrate extremely cruel acts given the right conditions.

In the so-called 'Stanford prison experiment' in 1971, college students were asked to act out roles as guards and detainees in a mock prison in the basement of the university's psychology department. Both groups quickly adapted to their roles and the guards became increasingly sadistic and cruel in their treatment of the prisoners. The results were so shocking the experiment was stopped early.

"It's not that we put bad apples in a good barrel. We put good apples in a bad barrel. The barrel corrupts anything that it touches," the experiment's author Dr Philip Zimbardo is quoted as saying on the American Psychological Association's website.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=79c_1204097624

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OFFBEAT
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Another rare isolated incident!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02f_1183192939

Another rare isolated incident!
http://www.examiner.com/a-1235293~Japan_Warns_Over_US_Soldier_Crime.html

Another rare isolated incident!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/world/middleeast/31soldier.html


http://www.liveleak.com/vieaw?i=c5c_1202145333
Soldier saying "I like the saying 'God will judge our enemies but he'll let us rape them first'"
After those other stories.. I believe he believes that.

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Thomas
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Out of the millions of US service men & women, I would say, yes. Those are rare incidents.

I know you don't really care for the people in the military, offbeat, point taken.

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OFFBEAT
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Oops! How are them Bush and Chaney boys gonna get out of this pickle?? Boss Hogg is on their tail!
http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm

...then when you come back from that commercial break, they take the general lee, and drive to a nike missle site, and tell the world to "suck a fart out of our american butts" Yeee Haaaaw!

More RARE isolated incidents..
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/19/soldiers.charged/index.html
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005/09/25/usint11776.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411B.html
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=41398
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/10376
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jul/01/iraq.warcrimes

I could be here all day.. if you google "u.s. soldier war crime Iraq" There are 500,000 matches.. i'm sure 1 or 2 of them is a rare isolated incident.

I'm glad to see the quick action to punish these war criminals.. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=57019

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Jasen
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quote:

I know you don't really care for the people in the military, offbeat, point taken.

He's still holding a grudge from that unforgettable wedgy back in 1987.

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OFFBEAT
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quote:
I know you don't really care for the people in the military, offbeat, point taken.
I never said that. That's a weak attempt to get me to shut up about it. Emphasis on the word 'weak'.

I have more respect for out troops than anyone supporting this war.

I'm under the stupid notion that we should respect their lives enough and only put them on the line to defend our country.

Here are 3 options.

"Police Action"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_action

"Invasion"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

"War"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War

Here's the "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" questionnaire:
Which one of these best describes the "war" in Iraq?

Which is an obvious mis-use of the word in the phrase "War in Iraq"?

Which one of these should have been our response to 9/11??

And what t-shirt best represents the largest growth in political interest and voters in history?
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OFFBEAT
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Another rare incident, and I only heard about this because my friend went to school with one of the soldiers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/10/AR2006071000614.html

Louis Armstrong's "What a Wonderful World" comes to mind.

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SNAKEBITE
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I couldn't read all those links. too overwhelming but I think that Offbeat cares about the soldiers.

these guys have been put threw the ringer for a long ass time. they need a break, cuz they're breaking themselves. the forever war needs to end.

you're only as strong as your weakest link. and although I'm not a soldier on the front, I know it
applies more to them then anyone.

soldiers actions reflect their leaders. and even
a small ratio of soldiers doing these kind of things can plague the rest.

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OFFBEAT
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"Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Jasen
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If anyone is interested & has the time. Watch this video called The War Tapes
Imagine how it is there and multiply that several times over.

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Jasen
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By the way... forgot to mention, this topic is naturally heading down a dark road... actually the first link was a pitch black road, but anyways.. it's probably too late for this but the video I linked to called "War Tapes" be warned... only people with thick skin should click & watch it... also you hear the way soldiers really talk, & with that comes bad language and crude humor etc. I'm almost certain that these guys after awhile paid no attention that they were being filmed. But trust me, this is what the military is really like... It's a weird thought, thinking that Mike Moriarty (in the video) was just coming into the Army as I was leaving it.
so enjoy being a fly on the wall for this one.

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Thomas
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I could post a thousand different links to all the good that our people in the military do, but that really isn't the point of this topic is it. So in keeping with the theme which offbeat has set up, I decided to show you that every liberal is an unhinged anti-American, terrorist sympathizing, dictator loving, moon bat. Viewed through the actions of the links below. WHAT! What! what! you say. Well the links don't lie it's true so it must be true. Right?

The Saint Patrick's Four: On St. Patrick’s Day, in 2003, these zealots decided to pour cups of their own blood over the recruiting offices in Ithica, NY. They went to the local center and splashed blood on everything they saw including the American flag.

A Mob of college anit-war protestors, In Jan 2005, composed of approximately 500 persons decided it would be a good idea to tear apart and beat a couple of on campus military recruiters. The school administration did nothing.

Mid-Feb. 2005. 20-year-old anti-war goon Brendan Walsh is sentenced to five years in federal prison for hurling a Molotov cocktail through the window of a Vestal, NY military recruitment office in 2003. He is apparently held in high regard by others of his ilk.

Peace thugs, successfully ambush recruiters on the UC Santa Cruz campus with rocks and other objects. Driving them off and patting themselves on the back for once again thwarting free speech.

And it just wouldn't be a real protest unless the Berkeley Pinkos weren't involved. The Berkeley city council decides to make a nuisance of itself, which then sparks off a flood of protests the other week. Lots O' Pictures (some may not be work safe)

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OFFBEAT
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Again.. weak way to deal with an argument..
Deflecting the problem of Soldiers committing attrocities.. bring up another completely different problem of liberals committing attrocities.

Just because Soldiers give out candy or teach Iraqi kids how to break dance.. it doesn't give them a free pass to rape 14 year old girls and set their families on fire, or throw puppies off of a cliff.
There is serious mental damage being inflicted on our troops that are ignored by our military. There are questions that should be raised about detecting this.

This isn't political group tennis
This isn't a sport of Liberal vs. Conservative
Cast aside "team mentality" Your life should dramatically improve.

The problem is our troops committing crimes.

I'm not a liberal. I'm a moderate. I hate hippies.. they bug the crap out of me. I can talk for hours about how I hate that my tax dollars go to giving 3rd generation of welfare recipitants. I hate how large our government is getting, and how our freedoms are slowly being taken away. Or restrictions placed on companies because of 'global warming' I hate how 80% of the lazy asses in this country tell the 20% of people who actually achieve something in life how to spend their money.

I don't understand choosing a side. Because each side is (as this current administration shows) is fallible to corruption. Both sides do incredible stupid moves.

I believe there should be a president for both sides.. and each party provide a solution for every problem.. and a moderate congress chooses the best answer for every solution.
Some times the douches have the best answer..
Some times the stinky hippies will have the best answer.

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Thomas
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No, I keep getting the impression you equate that the majority of our troops are messed up or evil, based on the actions of a few. I could see you getting a bit upset about this if nothing ever happened to these individuals, but this is not the case. I've not made any excuses for any of the messed up individuals that you have shown examples of, quite the contrary.

Your words tell me which camp your leaning in even if you say that you're riding the fence politically. As the majority of these types of posts you create bear a striking resemblance to the ones being spouted off on far left web sites.

As to my post above, I do not equate all those of the left persuasion as being as odious as the examples I've shown, however I think my point has been made to what you've been doing on this thread.

"Showing absurdity, by being absurd"

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I think Offbeat gets real passionate and angry about whats going on in the world cuz he's a sensitive and compassionate dude. I know Offbeat but I don't pretend like I know who he is but this is the feeling I get.

But his underlying message is that things need to change. sure soldiers do good as well but again they are only as strong as their weakest link and right now the weakest link is the people in charge. any bad actions our soldiers take reflect solely on the people in charge. they are not watching after our troops properly.

theres nothing absurd with wanting these actions to stop. this war has got us no where. nothing is better because of it and the repercussions surface is only being scrapped. we go on this way and puppies being thrown over the cliff is the least of our concerns.

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eboles
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Doesn't surprise much. A few months back I was looking for a video of that amazing 2 legged dog that went on all the talk shows.

Instead I found something rather less inspiring.

Looks like the bastards ran over it with their freedom convoy or something.

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Jasen
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Don't be surprised if the draft is reinstated.
Democrat vs. Republican- The Endless War

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Pen & Teller look at Mount Rushmore and what it means to be a true patriot

-Warning- poo poo language and you might see a BOOB or two!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! RUN!!! A BOOBY !!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

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