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Author Topic: Bush's Last Day Celebration Site?
Greg B
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http://www.bushslastday.com/


Some guys have all the good ideas?

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eboles
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yes, but can the world survive another 881 days of a Bush presidency.
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Fooksie
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Yeah. Bush was just tossin' them big ol' missles into Israel.
Keep worrying about Bush. He's the real problem.

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eboles
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more bemused than worried.
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SNAKEBITE
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Bush just represents whats been going on in
this countrys government since the dawn of its creation.

Big Business runs this world.

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Mr. Fun
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Amen to that!
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Mr. Fun
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On a related note, I was speaking with an older gentleman who expressed his fear of walking through his neighborhood because of all the gang violence.

I couldn't help but think of our current quest to rid the world of terrorists. What chance do we have of doing that -- when we can't even rid American cities of street gangs?

Seems we have work to do here at home before we begin policing the world.

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SNAKEBITE
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Gangs and terrorists are products of misery, ignorance and dispair...we only have to look to our "leaders"of the world to find the source of these things.

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eboles
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I don't know if the leaders are the source of the world's problems, but I wouldn't look to them to solve everything either.
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LeftyMcKay
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Mr. Fun, given your honorable status as a US veteran I'm surprised to hear you suggest that we eliminate US gangs before we deal with those in other parts of the world. Was your service during the Korean War simply a waste of time? How about the veterans of WWII? Should the US government at the time chosen to ignore the rise of Nazism and fascism in Europe in order to deal with domestic gangs? I don't think so and I doubt you do as well. The longer we ignore the threat of terrorism the worse it will get. Islamo-fascist terrorism is a global threat but unfortunately much of the world is hesitant to do anything serious about it. If the United States of America isn't going to assume the role of global policeman, who will? Much of Europe appears to be unwilling to fight for anything. When the criminals realize there is no law enforcer, should we assume they will simply give up their cause?

Snakebite, your apology for terrorists does nothing to explain Osama bin Laden and is an insult to all those who have risen from less than ideal beginnings. It's not about money, it's about values. When you're brought up to hate, becoming a terrorist isn't much of a leap.

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Greg B
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Mr. Fun is right.

Organized crime has had a grip on our country for almost 100 years now.

Remember, the Hell's Angels started from WWII veterans not 60's hippies or what-not.

Our very existences are compromised by gangsters who have now become heroes and role models. Our language is peppered with gangster slang. Some gangs are four generations deep. It's not like we don't know where they are, our prosecutors don't have the firepower nor support.

That's why foreign countries need our help. They have gangs so intertwined within their populace like the Hezzbollah and other gangs they can't fight back.

We need to clean our own house first but we won't. That level of courage and responsibility eludes us.

Maybe we all should just join a gang and be honest about it.

I say we cartoonists start our own gang called "The Draw Downs". We can have our own tattoos and mottos and t-shirts and music groups and videos and television shows like the other gangs do.

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SNAKEBITE
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wow....

I don't make apologies for people who choose to do bad things. I don't know where you got that. I just like to apply such calls across the board, to all that are guilty. Not just a select few that fit into my perception of right and wrong. Lets just look at actions, not feelings.

I agree with you on two points, however. One, yes it is indeed NOT about money, absolutely. Money is just a thing that changes form and shape when needed. Its a tool. Its about values, absolutely. Some people value "control".

I also agree that its about being brought up to hate. Like gang bangers. Like everyone, actually. The poor hate the rich, the rich hate the poor. This country hates that country. Why?
I wasn't born into this world with hate in my heart..its learned behavior. We look to our leaders to see how we should behave. Right, Lefty?

The sad thing is that you think policing the world is the solution. Its the furthest, theres no proof that that works and I know any attempt to communicate this with you will end up with a mis interrupted response followed by a needless conversation between two people who have nothing or very little in common about such views.

But I will continue to say,
These people are gone. they are totally blind to their hateful actions. No doubt, and maybe someone needs to put them in check. But we are not in any position to take the moral high ground and spear head such decisions. Our structure is way too messed up , guilty of the same crimes in different ways with different motivation and our government is totally completely motivated by economic gain,I mean the control of it, not morality...wait, I'll take that back, some people consider economic gain for control, moral...my bad.

Not that I should have to state the history of our personal terrorism on that region for some time now since its easily accessible and the garsh darn truth....and lets not forget Vietnam and the Korean War. Lets really remember them, for reals this time...again, the value of control...but those or two whole other threads.

in addition, I think Mr Funs wonders why we can't take care of our own when we preach so much about helping others...but I could be wrong, thats what I got from his comment about our gang problem.

Eboles,
I wouldn't look to them to solve any problem...I want to be able to see who they really are so I can come to such realizations and save myself. Thats how I think real change can happen, when people start saving themselves
from themselves. Alot of great individuals in the world, tons, but the people (especially americans) are complaicent and like the idea of gated communities and fast food lifestyles.

peace, even through the pieces.

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Greg B
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushism

Bushisms...

These are almost as funny as Yogi Berra's quotes.

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Sketchpad
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Lefty, when you talk about 'terrorists' are you talking about the Bush administration? Because they sure spend a lot of time frightening and terrorizing the public (like you) about terrorism.

This was a small group until these current politicians took the political road of diversion and lies to solve the problem.

Enough said for all this shameless fakery by fools that calls themselves presidents and patriots.

Lefty, I already know your answer, and I bet our dead soldiers and innocent Iraqis don't give a damn.

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OFFBEAT
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LeftyMcKay
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Sketchpad, your initial statement make it impossible to take anything else you say seriously, but because we're dealing with a serious subject it's important for you to be aware of the following. This "small group" you refer is responsible for the deaths of 256 victims on American soil between 1973 and 1999. Over 480 Americans around the world were slaughtered by terrorists prior to 9/11/2001 and prior to the election of George W. Bush.
And then there's worldwide terrorism. The following are "highlights" committed by this "small group" since September 11, 2001:

On 9/21/01 about 2000 people were injured, and more than 29 killed when a radical Islamist blew up a fertilizer plant in in Toulouse, France.

On 9/26/01 armed Islamists killed 22 civilians and wounded 7 in Larbaa, Algeria.

On 10/1/01 terrorists attacked a Christian church in Tomata, Indonesia, killing 3 women.

On 10/15/01 32 Christians were killed by Muslim mobs. 51 others were injured and at least five churches were burned down in Kano, Nigeria.

On 12/1/01 Muslims bombed a boat and then attempted to stab the survivors to death in the Bay of Ambon, Indonesia. They succeeded in killing 7 and wounding 42.

On 2/3/02 al-Medya, Algeria five Islamic fundamentalists set up a false roadblock and proceed to slaughter 12 unlucky motorists. An additional 8 were wounded.

On 4/28/02 an Arab militia attacked two villages in Shoba Karika, Sudan, killing 24 African civilians and burning many houses. 23 were wounded.

On 5/2/02 an Islamist attack on civilians in the Teyart region of Kasar Shalala, Algeria left 20 dead.

On 5/9/02 Chechan terrorists detonated a bomb at a Russian military parade in Kaspiisk, Dagestan, slaughtering 45 innocents and injuring more than one-hundred and seventy.

On 7/5/02 a bomb explosion by Islamic fundamentalists in al-Arbaa, Algeria results in 49 dead and 17 wounded.

On 10/26/02 in Moscow, Russia Chechnyan Muslims held 800 people hostage in a theater. 2 were shot and killed and another 127 died in the rescue attempt. Another 150 were wounded.

On 10/31/02 Muslims went on a rampage against Christian students at a local college, killing 20 and injuring over 50 in Zaria, Nigeria.

On 11/22/02 a Muslim mob in Kaduna, Nigeria burned Christian churches and rampaged through the streets stabbing, bludgeoning and burning 105 people to death. 521 were wounded.

On 11/28/02 three suicide bombers in Mombasa, Kenya killed 12 people, including 2 children. 26 were wounded.

On 12/6/02 four bombs detonated concurrently at four packed movie cinemas in Mymenshingh, Bangladesh, killing 27 and injuring 200. Muslim fundamentalists had been critical of entertainment venues and those who frequented them.

On 12/12/02 Muslim nomads attacked a Christian village in Rim, Nigeria and killed 13 people including a clergyman and his family.

On 12/27/02 Three Fedayeen suicide bombers killed 80 Russians and Chechans in Grozny, Chechnya. At least 127 people are injured in the attacks.

On 1/5/03 Islamic "Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat" ambushed a security convoy and killed 49, wounded 19 in the Aures Mountains of Algeria.

On 4/4/03 in Indonesia, the Indonesian military raided the Christian town of Wamena, burning Bibles and churches, killing 2 Baptist pastors along with at least 13 others. Other Christians were tortured.

On 4/30/03 an attack by the Janaweed on the village of Molli in Sudan left 64 people dead and an unknown number injured.

On 5/12/03 at least 60 people, including 7 children, were killed and more than 100 hospitalized when three suicide bombers detonated a truck bomb outside a government building in a residential area of Znamenskoye, Chechnya.

On 5/22/03 Islamic troops in Sudan attacked the Christian village of Longochok, burning homes and killing at least 59 villagers. They also take captive several women and children (some of whom were killed later).

On 8/1/03 a Muslim suicide bomber drove into a hospital and killed at least 50 in Mozdok, Russia. More than 100 were injured in the blast.

On 10/11/03 Muslim gunmen in Indonesia attacked Christian villagers in Sulawesi, killing 8, injured 24 and burned at least one church.

On 11/8/03 at least 42 people were killed in Darfur, Sudan, and an unknown number wounded when Jihad militias attacked 32 villages, burned houses and set fire to crops.

On 11/19/03 2 Jews were brutally murdered by Muslims in separate attacks in Paris, France One had his throat slit and eyes gouged while a 53-year old mother was stabbed 27 times in the neck and chest.

On 12/5/03 a Mujahideen suicide bomber detonated an explosive on a Russian commuter train carrying civilians to work in Yessentuki. 44 people, including children eventually die and about 150 others were injured.

On 1/4/04 22 Muslim extremists raided a government armory in Narathiwat, Thailand and then set fire to 18 secular schools in a rampage that left at least 4 soldiers dead and an unknown number injured.

On 1/31/04 a final tally from the genocidal attack on an African village in Surra, Sudan earlier in the month came to about 250 people slaughtered, mostly women and children. An unknown number were injured and thirty are still missing.

On 3/27/04 28 people were injured when a bomb hidden on a motorcycle exploded outside a karaoke bar in Sungai Kolok, Thailand.

On 3/29/04 19, including children, police officers and civilians were killed in a series of suicide bombings by Muslim extremists in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. 49 were injured.

On 5/19/04 Jihadists killed 24 Christian villagers in Bakin Ciyawa, Nigeria.

On 6/21/04 Jihad fighters rampaged through the town of Nazran in Ingushetia, shooting in cold blood or burning to death at least 57 people and injured another 60.

On 9/3/04 in Beslan, Russia Islamic militants shot fleeing children in the back, then blew them up, along with their mothers and teachers with nail-packed bombs. Others were crushed or burned to death from the effects of the bombs. More than 300 innocents were slaughtered.

On 10/8/04 an Islamic extremist group planted a bomb outside the Indonesian embassy in Paris, France injuring 10.

On 10/16/04 an Assyrian Christian was beaten and killed by Muslim attackers, who then mutilated his body and dumped it in the Christian quarter of the town of Hasaka in Syria. A friend coming to help was shot and killed.

On 10/28/04 local Muslims gunned down a Buddhist orchard owner and bombed a bar. The bomb killed 2 people and injured 20 others in Sungai Kolok, Thailand.

On 11/4/04 Muslim terrorists killed 9 Buddhists over a 24-hour period in separate attacks in Pattani, Thailand. At least one monk survived with injuries, as well as a young boy.

On 2/14/05 a powerful suicide bomb blast killed the former Lebanese Prime Minister and 14 others in Beirut, Lebanon. 120 are injured in the blast.

On 2/18/05 Muslim separatists killed 6 people near a hotel in Sungai Kolok, Thailand hosting a wedding reception with a powerful car bomb. 44 were wounded.

On 4/10/05 14 Christians were killed in an attack on their villages by Muslim militants in Benue, Nigeria. 4 were wounded.

On 5/28/05 a priest and an infant are among the 24 Christians killed when Islamic militants detonate two bombs in the center of the village of Sulawesi in Indonesia. At least 54 others were injured.

On 9/23/05 a Hamas truck, loaded with rockets intended for Israel, exploded early, killing 17 Palestinians (including 3 children) and injuring another 140 in Jebaliya, Palestinian Authority.

On 10/26/05 5 Narathiwati villagers were killed in a series of attacks by militant Islamists in Thailand.

On 10/31/05 3 Christians were killed by Muslims in unrest following the carrying out of a Sharia sentence of amputation against a Christian in Niger Province Nigeria. 13 were wounded.

On 2/15/06 a Hindu sailor in Fujairah, UAE was beaten to death by Iranian crew mates, angered over Muhammad cartoons.

On 2/18/06 angry Muslim mobs burned churches and beat Christians to death in Maiduguri, Nigeria. At least 16 are killed in the violence, 112 wounded.

On 4/23/06 a Muslim threw a grenade into a market in Sana'a, Yemen, killing 7 and wounding 13.

On 6/27/06 in Yala, Thailand Islamists targeted a convoy of teachers with a bomb. 5 security guards were killed in the explosion, 1 was wounded.

As I hope you can see, this "small group" has been responsible for a lot of senseless carnage. Given that I've purposely excluded countries that were a part of the "Coalition of the Willing", Iraq, The Philippines, Israel, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey and Egypt and others you might feel are somehow associated with the United States via President Bush, maybe you can explain how "these current politicians took the political road of diversion and lies to solve the problem" are somehow responsible. Maybe you, like many others, weren't aware or simply didn't care before 9/11 because it wasn't happening in your back yard. I don't want to see it happen here again so yes, I support proactive action in other parts of the world intended to stop the spread and threat of Islamo-fascism. I do find it sad that the world needs some kind of policing but unfortunately that's reality. Does anybody truly believe that terrorism would disappear if no efforts were made to stop it? If one believes like Snakebite that the "US is in no position to take the moral high ground and spearhead such decisions", who is left and willing? Switzerland? Iran? If your answer is "nobody" what do you think the end result will be?

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SNAKEBITE
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How many deaths is America responsible for between the years of 1973 and 1999 on other countries soil?...I bet its more than 256.

Who wants to bet me?

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eboles
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iraq war civilian body count

...which is not to say that statistics are going to solve who's right and wrong. But perhaps the 'solution' has similar ill effects to the 'problem'.

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Thomas
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Lefty. Sorry to say, there is no point in mentioning anything to back up your position on this board as you & I are part of the problem in this country. Might as well get used to it

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LeftyMcKay
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Any loss of innocent life during war is tragic, but if we're to going to use that as some kind of gauge, does that mean that our battle against Nazism and fascism during WWII was pointless given that the loss of civilians was far greater than that of the military? Would it have been better for Europe to have just knuckled under to Hitler and Mussolini? Is that the kind of Europe you yearn for? If Islamo-fascism is allowed to become the governing force in the Middle East will it become a better place? Will it make the West, let alone the rest of the world, safer?

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eboles
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World War 2 casualties

proof at least that it's not quite WW3 yet(despite the best efforts of some).

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Charles
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How many people died by the hand of their own governments from 1973 to 1999?

How many died in Cambodia? Iran? Iraq? Indonesia? The Soviet Union when it was around? The African continent? How about all the Buhddist monks who were executed in Tibet by China? There are many many many governments a hell of a lot worse than the worst the US could ever possibly have been in this time frame, yet little mention is made of it.

As strong as the negative feelings are about George Bush, as troubled, angry and upset as many Americans are, we can be certain of one thing. By January 20, 2009, he won't be president anymore. And many of the leaders of countries of the Earth that brutalize, supress and murder their own people will still be in power long after George Bush is gone with virtually no mention of the attrocities they comit upon their citizens.

I'll take America any day over any other nation on Earth. Even with George Bush as president, whom I am not enamored with, I'll take America.

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Sketchpad
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George Bush didn’t put us in WWII. [Roll Eyes]

Armchair crocodile tears: 'the lost of human lives are tragic, blah, blah, blah...'

Step right up and sacrifice yourself, your love ones, and many, many Iraqis for the great neo-con bullhorn of ideology and fear!

Hey, Lefty how about also a list of the people killed in 9/11 because Bush decided to ignore the warning signs and take a vacation. He sure screwed that up.

In fact, ever since that time, all he has been trying to do is cover his butt by grabbing power and distracting the public with more broken laws than anyone can keep up with. Why? Because Bush knows he failed to protect us, and he also knows that if we actually stop for a moment and think about what he has done to our country, we’d probably jail his ass.

Security? Not with the Bush administration before or after 9/11. What security did the Iraqis get Lefty? Suicide insurgency bombs Iraq daily and all Bush wants to do is to go out for parties and drinks and have chats with football players.

Tell us about Bush’s vacation during Katrina, Lefty. He is always taking a vacation. Guess what he did when Israel raided Lebanon? He took a vacation!

And I'll say this again, Lefty: You can't speak for the dead. Not for the Soldiers and the innocent people that are dying now in Iraq, and you certainly can’t speak about the horrors of WWII from your armchair.

And you have the gall to ask if Mr. Fun if his experience in the Korean war was a waste of time? Your armchair Dick Cheney and Carl Rove rants and scare tactics about terrorism -- now there’s a screwed-up waist of time!

And don’t waist any more of my time writing to me about terrorism and the Bush administration. The Bush administration had a chance to take control of the terrorism situation, but he decided to play politics and dice up our lives into fear and hate.

A bunch frightened extreme political neurotics like the Bush people -- that gladly lies and waist the lives of our soldiers and others for its own political profit and convenience -- no longer has any credibility.

Good night and good luck.

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Sketchpad
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Sorry, Charles but I had to respond with my concerns and you had already posted.

So enough from me.

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LeftyMcKay
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Sorry to say Sketchpad, but my previous comment to you applies now more than ever. Good night indeed.

eboles, the number of casualties doesn't determine whether this is World War III or not. Personally I see it as World War IV (the Cold War being WWIII).

Charles, I couldn't agree with you more. [cheers]

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Greg B
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Well said Charles.

Yet Bush may not be gone in 2009. There's a push to get rid of the two-term laws.

Anyhow, Sketchpad you're right. George Bush didn't put us in WWII, but his grandfather Prescott Bush sure as heck had a major hand in it! One of if not the largest financier of the Nazi government. Matter of fact the whole Bush family got busted in the early 1940s for collusion with the enemy. This while George Bush Sr. was risking his life as a fighter pilot over the Pacific. That must have really hurt him to know that while he was flying over enemy fire, his father's bs helped plunge the world into war. George Sr. was sort of a Luke Skywalker in his day.

No matter what we like or dislike about George W. Bush, the people did vote him into office TWICE. He's been accused of everything from 9/11 to athlete's feet but hasn't been busted yet. So we know that for a fact that because half our fellow Americans voted for him, it's they who will have to go to their maker with that on their conscience good or bad.

Are we in a mess? We sure are. It's a mess we all created by letting ourselves drop our guards for the past 70 years regarding the Arabs, Muslims and then finally Israel.

Our foreign policies are based on the fact that the majority of the people in the U.S. are descendants of people who emigrated here. They have roots and interests in foreign events. People come here, make tons of money and feed it back home and some goes for good, some for evil.

We'll never see the end of it as our leaders and far too many of our fellow citizens are delusional and irresponsible. We've made our own Frankenstein's Monsters from Lenin to Stalin to Hitler to Castro to Ayatollah Khomeini to Saddam Hussein to Manuel Noriega to Bin Laden and then some.

We did that. Now again we're paying the price in American lives.

You guys under 45+ years of age had best keep an eye peeled. If we go to full fledged war unless you're 4F you can count on gettin' hauled in. We're just one remark from a draft anyhow. That's one of the main reasons for the negligence regarding illegal immigration. Both Dems and Repubs are counting on if we go full WWIII we could use the latino manpower to fight in exchange for citizenship as we do now.

We can't afford for the U.S. to get torn up again in civil conflict but our enemies sure would like for us to. With our forces spread thin and overworked, our economy regarding our debt in jeopardy, we could be sitting ducks if we don't watch out.

Let's hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

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Charles
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I take issue with the conventional wisdom about gangs.

It's convenient to fall into the trap of a victimization mindset. Although our political and business leaders in many instances make poor role models, so do a lot of sports stars, entertainment celebrities, and even parents.

Everytime I've seen a reality talk show featuring troubled kids they're always with their mothers. Where's the father?

It begins and ends with the family. If the family isn't there, a kid will gravitate towards a gang for the support they'd find in a family. That's what I've seen living and growing up in heavy gang areas for a long time.

It's easy to blame George Bush for one's lack of personal responsibility.

When I see corruption in business and politics, it gets me angry. Not a destructive anger, but something motivational instead. I want to do something about it. I want to fight back, not give up. That's what happens too often with far too many people, especially in gangs. They get angry and destroy when they should be using that anger as motivation to build something new and different.

Change doesn't come from our leaders, it comes from us. It's a personal responsibility to educate oneself. It's a personal responsibility to take control of your own life.

Just like in animation. It's ultimately up to us, not the executives. We shouldn't be looking to or relying on others besides ourselves for our own leadership and progress. If we set the example, they will be the ones that change.

I call it the trickle up theory.

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Sketchpad
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Charles, I believe what mr. Fun is referring to is that the usual funds to deal with the gang problems have been cut by the Feds. This has been researched and pointed out by news articles in print, and the news media in general as one of the reasons for the sharp rise in gang activity. And they are not just pointing to the cutting off of federal funds to law enforcement -- they are referring to the loss of funds for community activities as well.

Not every family is perfect, Charles. If that were the case, we would never have created divorce laws. We all wish people would have successful lives and marriages, but among human beings that just isn't going to happen 100% of the time.

But you're right about where some of the responsibility lies. Yet like GregB says -- you also have to watch out and protect yourself.

Lefty, discrediting may be very easy for you and in political fashion these days, but like I said before your actions don't surprise me. You are on autopilot anyway. Btw, you might want to pay attention to Greg B's warning.

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Ganklin
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once again, i've gotta say it. people who rail on and on about the war and loss of life just love to engage in character assasination.

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Sketchpad
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I'm not sure that's meant for me or not but...

Your remarks could easily be just another cover for one’s own attempts at political discrediting. It's in fashion, remember? And it has been very politically useful for Rove and the Bush administration, using it extensively on others to maintain their dishonest agenda -- probably up till now.


Btw, you can attempt to hide the deaths of individuals, but their families will keep the memory and spread the hatred. Irregardless of your own thoughts on the matter.

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Ganklin
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hah, case in point.

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Sketchpad
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There's no case to point to...oh well, one can probably point to your continued attempts to marginalize my viewpoint. But then marginalizing truth or descent is also in political fashion these days. [Roll Eyes]
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Sketchpad
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Oops. Actually that's 'dissent'. It's not subconscious I tell ya. [abducted] [funny]
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-FP-
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quote:
...people who rail on and on about the war and loss of life just love to engage in character assasination
Are you not assassinating the character of those who disagree with you by characterizing them as assassins of character?

Suggestions that the current wars are being handled poorly are frequently rebutted, by the wars' defenders, with pointless comparisons to other wars with other enemies in different times and situations. Yes, the iz-lammo-crazies have killed a bunch of people and they will kill a lot more when they can, for insane reasons. Yes, they should be dealt with harshly, terminally when possible.

But, baffling contention arises when it's pointed out that, in nearly every instance, the current government of the US and its de facto puppets behave in ways that, first and foremost, further enrich cronies of those in power at the expense of the ostensible goal of dealing with those who would kill infidels. The objective itself - the reduction of a monstrous threat - is relegated to a distant second concern, wretchedly mishandled by incompetents, underfunded due to theft and corruption, and hamstrung by counterintuitive military actions, arrogant duplicity, compulsive secrecy beyond that which is required and a tendency to crush dissent rather than account for what, to any sane adult, should look like criminal malfeasance and irresponsibility on an unprecedented scale.

Those in charge of mounting this "long war" have, at best, accomplished nothing at great expense, and, at worst, increased the danger to the world, wrecked the US economy for the next fifty or more years (except for the most wealthy), lost over 2500 troops (not including those who die in transit to hospitals outside Iraq, which could bring the total to several thousand more), ruined the lives of permanently handicapped young soldiers while simultaneously slashing veterans' benefits, further enraged, without substantially damaging, the supposed targets of our military assaults, and used this disastrous worldwide scenario primarily as a way to clumsily, publicly, and obnoxiously raid the piggy bank while spraying incompatible, serial lies as fast as their mouths will permit. It's almost as if a world in violent chaos is the desired result. It's much easier to get away with smashing a window and grabbing a TV if the whole neighborhood is on fire.

Opposition to this war does not directly translate into a failure to realize the inevitability of war and its consequences - but when these consequences are visited upon vast numbers of people who are not even distantly connected to the offenses which sparked the conflict - when our retaliatory bombs fall on a country that was in no way, even by our own president's admission, involved with the attack on 9/11 - opposition, and revulsion, is a suitable response. Those who have so wretchedly, criminally increased the world's horror in random directions, rather than directly addressing the real threat, simply to profit and increase their power and defying the US constitution to do so, deserve the full force of retribution that can be mustered against them and at the very least, the scorn of the few people actually paying attention.

Disagreement with the way in which this war has been carried out, and regret at the large amount of collateral splattering, does not imply the sceptical observer has an inability to realize the threat posed by real enemies. Pointing out that things have been done poorly, when the evidence is obvious, is not character assassination.

The preceding refers mostly to the Iraq/US war. The Israel/Lebanon issue is a whole other thing.

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Greg B
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It's all said best as to why we'll never have peace by the late Sam Kinison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj9DdTXxDFU

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SNAKEBITE
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word, FP.

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Greg B
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Panucci, eloquently expressed.

Now for the real deal from us so called 'tinfoil hat' crowd.

The same players today are the same you'll find going all the way back to WWI easy. WWII was the biggest bank robbery in history and the tactics and players are the same.

The public is stupid and greedy enough to be part and parcel to the whole thing that's why it proliferates. Americans generate trillions of dollars. Having that money in their hands is a threat to the status quo thus fictitious threats abound in order to obsconde with that surplus. If the money is in your hands, you might do something dangerous like spend it on a truly good cause.

Can't let that happen.

The Pyramid of Psychosis works this way:

At the top are the most paranoid psychotics in the bunch. It's a relatively small part of our populations. Everywhere, not just the U.S., one religion, or one race. In the middle are those so closely associated by ignorance, fear, or whatever to that top percentage. The middle are borderline as they're in that 'iffy/maybe' area of life. At the bottom are the majority of the population. The foundation of the work, energy, stability. The true numbers mostly content with a decent life if allowed but under the oppression of the top two tiers. Too much distance from the real danger, meaning the top, and left in confusion and disarray by the less than stable middle.

As the psychotic ramblings and innuendos and sinisterly effective delusions from those who are afraid of everybody and everything and in order for them to sleep at night they have to believe that everyone is under their control or the next best thing is to kill everyone so they'll be safe.

We're dealing with now, and always, crazy, psychotic persons who are literally a plague to all mankind. They may appear that they look normal, act normal and can even know how to use a salad fork, but turn your back for one minute and you'll find that salad fork in your back.

Here in the U.S. we're constantly barraged by 'new' threats. The Ozone Layer is depleting, new flus, earthquakes, computers, everything is a threat for as far as meteors to skin cream. Keeping you scared keeps you off your guard and true purpose in life. A deceptive,controlling sinister liar and enemy's best tactic is psyching you out. Using rhetoric and sciences of persuasion to throw you off guard. To fight intangible enemies while they in turn take bed with you with knife in hand and poisons at the ready.

I've said it numerous times regarding primatology, our social structures are now nothing more than major crime gangs in social disguises of order and benevolence.

The proof of the pudding is in it's tasting goes the old saying.

As a country we're at odds with one another, our resources strained, our borders grossly unsecured, our population growing ill from growing epidemic endocrinological disorders etc. says to me we're doing something wrong on all fronts.

My best solution would be to focus primarily on what we're not doing to properly service the citizens of the U.S. as due their birthright. We're not supposed to have delays, second rate service and goods from the government. We've rebuilt entire nations and some a couple of times already in the past 100 years but we're far too lax in upping the standards of care and service due the people of the most generous and free nation on the planet.

Why?

Too many wolves in the fold and the shepherds too busy at games.

That last sentence is an old one. Goes back way to ancient times and still holds true today.

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Ganklin
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whatever you say.

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Sketchpad
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And he said a whole lot more than what you had to offer here or elsewhere.

Still have nothing to say. Why? Because you hope to keep the truth either hidden or marginalized, or because you've run out of excuses. You have no excuses for Bush's many blunders because his incompetence speaks loudly and clearly for you.

How about telling us how we are losing Afghanistan. Oh, you can't? Is it because if we ignore it and try to hide it under the rug we hope that it will go away? Is that your thinking? Or maybe you want to come up with a suitable excuse and blame our losing the battle on 'the terrorists'. That's an easy one. We lost the battle, because, oh gosh, the terrorist came back! Oh wow. [Roll Eyes]

How many more battles will we lose and have to think of excuses for? Is that what you like? Is that what you believe in?

Or again maybe you can't speak because we've run out of excuses for this Administration's mess. You can't come up with anything new or original because you're use to feeding the same old useless political hogwash.

If you don't want to speak the truth or speak up at all then I'll do it and say: with the President that we have in these troubled times, silence cannot be golden. Silence now means that either there is intimidation going on, or a hidden agenda that's going on that isn't going to serve the public good or help our country, or that the President and his administration is hiding in fear from the truths of their terrible and irresponsible decisions. (Hell, Bush wants to pass off the mess he made of this country to future presidents.)

Still no detailed opinions? Speak up, man. We can't hear you.

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Ganklin
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you want me to speak up? fine. you've got it.

you don't know me. you dont know what i believe in. you don't know what i do on a daily basis or how i conduct my buiseness. additionally, you missed out on the irony of what i was trying to point out. YOU are trying to push YOUR agenda just as much as bush or anyone else in office does. anyone who doesn't agree with you or fit into YOUR line of thinking is subjected to any number of insults and belittlement on their character. don't fret, you're not alone. i see this from the people i work with to people on the street, and especially from here on these boards. hearing this from people who claim to be intelligent, rational, and compassionate artists is dissapointing. infortunately, that seems to be how you want to run the game.

i wil not indulge you, sketchpad.

i've written how i feel about today's events elsewhere in these boards. i am not repeating myself again. however, i will say this much about your assesment of me: you are completely wrong. even better: i don't care to tell you because i am not interested in what you think.

i applaud lefty for taking it on the chin and rolling with it like a champ.

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