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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » Any chance StarWars III won't suck?

   
Author Topic: Any chance StarWars III won't suck?
ermac01
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I recently finished watching cartoon networks clone wars season 2. I must say, some highly entertaining stuff, it seems like a complete departure from the actuall movies.

Is there a chance this "return of the sith" won't suck?
opinions?

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SquarejawHero
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Unless Lucas lets his actors off the leash, then this'll suck.

I'm sure the "space battles" etc. will be great, but he's painted his canvas so wide I doubt it'll hold together completely. But lets face it. We just want to see Vader say some new lines. [Big Grin]

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Marcus Moore
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Unfortunately, any coolness that might come from that has been cut off at the knees. Haden in the suit looks ridiculous as Vader. There isn't a single shot of him from the new movie that gives me any kind of vibe. Heck, when he crosses his arms at the end of the last trailer you can see his breast-plate raise up off his chest!

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Graphiteman
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I don't take the prequels that serious and enjoy them thouroughly as sthe Saturday matinees that they are.
That said, the problem these films have is that we already know what happens. We knew at the end of the original Return Of The Jedi. Their problem has not been what happens but to tell how it happened in a way that is better than our imaginations filled-in all those years bteween the originals and the prequels.

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Mr. Fun
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My wife spoke with Hayden Christianson last year. She said he seemed like a nice guy. Then again, she likes tall, good looking men. (don't include me in that)

Anyway, I hope this film works, though I don't have much hope after seeing the first two. I'm more impressed with George as a businessman, not as a film maker. I had a chance to take a stroll around his impressive new facility at The Presideo in San Francisco. Very, very impressive. If he plays his cards right, Lucas could be the new Walt Disney.

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Ravenshoe
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I'm going in expecting the worst -- and hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
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j-dog
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i am not a fan of star wars .but rescently i did see two of them on television and i enjoyed them .--i saw the first installment of the episodes a few years ago i didnt like it .but i am looking forward to seeing the latest. it looks good .so lets wish for something -a treat perhaps this time around -good luck george...and fans.
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monkeydad
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After seeing episode 2, I swore that Lucas wouldn't get another dime of box office money from me. That promise holds, especially after seeing the trailer. I'll rent the DVD around Christmastime, thanks.
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Mr. Fun
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Still, ya' gotta hand to George. Who else could shoot home movies and make people pay to see them? After all, he's simply using a high end camcorder, right?

I truly loved Star Wars one and two, but sadly the series died a long time ago -- in a far-a-way place.

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Christian
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I can't render a final verdict but from everything I've seen there's a possibility it won't suck. Even before Episode I came out and people freaked out about Jar Jar and midichlorians and a little kid exclaiming "Yippee!" I was saying on message boards that Ep. III would be the real thing and I and II would merely be stepping stones to it. I've skimmed through the graphic novel and if what I read there translates to screen well people shouldn't be disappointed.
I don't believe Jar Jar has any lines in this (and only appears briefly in the background of one or two scenes) and they brought the Wookiees back and there are no Ewoks. Many people saw George's decision to use Ewoks in place of Wookiees in Return of the Jedi as the beginning of his downfall. The movie may still suck but personally I don't see quite as much evidence for that potentiality as with the previous three movies.

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Russian Judge
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I don't plan to see it, even if, in the words of Luke Ski, "to increase his popularity Jar Jar Binks becomes a Sith Lord and kills N-Sync."

There are ways you can tell a downer story, even if a good man is turned into a murdering villain simply because he feels emotions. (If you follow the rules of The Force, feeling any emotions, even love, leads to the Dark Side.) It is possible to make such a story compelling. But the more I see out of Lucas and his other projects, I don't think he has the skill to do it. He will undoubtedly provide a lot of eye candy, but he won't be able to do anything about the cavities in the story.

It's already become a fanboy cliche to say "George Lucas raped my childhood," but doesn't saying it have the ring of truth for you?

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DougThomas
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Let me be the first to say...I can't wait for this movie. I wasn't fond of Episode 1..and still have issues watching "parts" of it. I liked Episode 2 very much and didn't see many issues with it. My excitement for Episode 3 is just bubbling and ready to explode. It truly amazes me that so many people want these movies to flop....I love Star Wars...I have for the past 25 years of my life (don't remember much before the age of 3)..just remember folks...they're movies....they aren't supposed to have real life dialogue that makes sense...they are there for you to enjoy!! I'm sure that we could totally pick apart the original three and say the same things about them....heck, we could probably pick apart Indiana Jones.... Just do me a favor, everyone, love it for what it is...a movie...a memory of days past...and something that is unfortunately about to end. Other than Mickey Mouse - only these movies have had that large of an impact on my life and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Mr. Fun
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Well, I doubt if anybody wants this movie to flop. What would be the point of that? We do, however, want a good movie, and what's wrong with wanting that?

I've worked on movies that suck. I can't use the excuse, accept it for what it is. If it's bad -- it's bad.

I have a lot of respect for Lucas. He's made some great movies (many years ago) and he's been a real innovator. Motion Pictures are technically better today because of George. Sadly, he hasn't grown as a writer and film maker, but that's cool. In many other ways, he's accomplished a great deal, and I still admire him.

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Christian
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It's fashionable nowadays to pick on anything and everything. I've liked all five Star Wars movies, each in it's own way. On the other hand there's things I'd like to change about each one of them but I can't get my feathers ruffled just because George doesn't exactly match my personal vision. Here's what Joshua Griffin (somebody who was let down by Episode I) has to say:

http://theforce.net/latestnews/story/C3_Is_Episode_III_The_One_91638.asp

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Christian
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From http://www.aintitcool.com:

quote:
I was in the second Lucas Q&A (at least, I think it was the second - blue wrist band) and someone had the cojones to ask why the original trilogy was interesting and the prequels weren't. Lucas talked about how the first act of a play and the first chapters of a book are always boring because their exposition - they set up the rest of the story - and compared the prequels to that. Even more interesting, though, Lucas said that when he originally wrote the SW story, the prequels amounted to about 20 pages. 20% of that got used in TPM (with the rest of the movie made up - Lucas called it a "jazz rift" on the main plot), 20% in AOTC (with more "filler"), but fully 60% of the prequel plot is contained in ROTS.

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painter
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In George's 60 Minutes interview for this film, he mentioned that now he has made his money, he's going back to his first love, independent avant-garde films. I am hoping that means films more like THX (his best, IMO) and American Graffiti.

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it's here I sit and rust amid this ruin and rancor like tire irons
toothy grills and car parts before me...

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monkeydad
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"Lucas talked about how the first act of a play and the first chapters of a book are always boring because their exposition - they set up the rest of the story - and compared the prequels to that. "

What a load of poo [Gary]

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animator-boy
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Episode 3, like the other 2 prequels, will probably have stuff I like as well as stuff that pisses me off. I really wish he would leave Anakins fate a bit more of a mystery..for that kid watching the saga in 20 years there will be some surprise at that fact that Anakin is Vader.....but I just don't think Lucas is that forward thinking anymore. I fully expect Padme to call the twins by name, thereby ruining that surprise too.....And since he has decided to show Vader why the hell is the costume virtually the same? The clone trooper armor changes from Ep 2 to Ep 3 but in 20 some years Vader looks more or less the same. Ep 3 Vader should be more Frankenstein-ish....
.....anyways...."rant about a movie i have not seen yet" is over

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Christian
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I was surprised too that they didn't take the opportunity to make a somewhat different looking Vader costume for Episode III.
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monkeydad
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"for that kid watching the saga in 20 years there will be some surprise at that fact that Anakin is Vader"

Perhaps, but the "Luke, I am your father" surprise has been completely destroyed. That was the biggest one of the series, and has been totally wrecked by the prequels.

And don't even get me started on "Greedo shoots first"... [funny]

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Christian
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The I am your father part was already partly destroyed when Return of the Jedi came out and destroyed even more when both movies came out on video. Not much of a surprise left no matter how you look at it so Ep. III really won't be doing that much damage.
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rostrum
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"It is a different 'Star Wars,"' Lucas told the AP. "It is a tragedy. It's a real tearjerker. All the women who have seen it, some of the men that have seen it, cried through it."

nuff said.

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animator-boy
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quote:
Perhaps, but the "Luke, I am your father" surprise has been completely destroyed. That was the biggest one of the series, and has been totally wrecked by the prequels.
Exactly...that's what I'm saying...leave Anakin's fate in Ep 3 a mystery....he falls into the lava....arrrrrrrr....believed to be dead...we all know the saga ends but it seems that the films, now that he has done the prequels, need to flow together like a book...or mini-series...and you don't blow all the surprises mid way thru....

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monkeydad
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"The I am your father part was already partly destroyed when Return of the Jedi came out..."

Um, no. A movie moment can't be ruined by a movie that comes out after it. Not in the theater anyway. If someone chooses to watch the video releases out of order and the moment comes as no surprise, then it's the viewer's responsibility, not the filmmaker's. In the case of Eps 1 and 2, it's the filmmaker who is spoiling the moment in the earlier film, not the viewer. If, in 20 years, someone decides to watch the movies in numerical order (rather than chronological), the "I am your father" will come as no surprise.

Those of us who are old enough to have seen the movies in initial release in theaters didn't have info from Jedi in advance of Empire. That moment had an effect - an effect that is now ruined by eps 1 and 2.

I'm just glad my son saw the first three movies the way they should be seen - original cuts, in order.

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Christian
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But nobody now will have to wait three years to see Return of the Jedi after seeing Empire. And there will be incredibly few people, if any, who won't just have picked up on the Anakin/Vader connection anyway. The cat's out of the bag.
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eboles
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I thought episode 2 was an improvement on episode 1, and I expect episode 3 to be an improvement on that, possibly even a good film. At any rate I'm sure there's plenty worse ways to spend 2 hours of your life.

Episode 1 was pretty weak, even for me, a non-fan with no emotional investment in the series. The originals don't do all that much for me either, but what I enjoyed about them over the new ones, from an aesthetic standpoint was that they seemed less artificial. The prequels are a little too perfect in their design, and totally bland. IV to VI feel more organic.

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Christian
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quote:
The prequels are a little too perfect in their design, and totally bland. IV to VI feel more organic.
And Ep. III is supposed to blend the two looks. This was mentioned by George even before Episode I came out.
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ermac01
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"It is a different 'Star Wars,"' Lucas told the AP. "It is a tragedy. It's a real tearjerker. All the women who have seen it, some of the men that have seen it, cried through it."


-This is very unclear.
Phantom Menace was tragic.
I nearly cried after watching that too.

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Russian Judge
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Painter said, "In George's 60 Minutes interview for this film, he mentioned that now he has made his money, he's going back to his first love, independent avant-garde films. I am hoping that means films more like THX (his best, IMO) and American Graffiti."

Oddly, the interviews I read after "Return of the Jedi" said that he wanted to make completely abstract films. All CGI. No humans and probably no identifiable human-like characters. Like what Paul Klee would make if he had a Cray.

I really wish Lucas would make films about human beings again, too. He's been hypnotized by effects and hyperbolic ideals for all this time, but he hasn't done much with human souls and concerns. (The times he did, he did with Steven Spielberg on the "Indiana Jones" movies and TV show.) The era of humans with everyday problems and common heroism didn't end at the end of "American Graffiti," although most filmmakers seem to think so. I, for one, would like to see what happened to Terry the Toad after he fled Vietnam, and (if you gotta be fantastic) what happened to the soul of John Milner after that drunken driver took him out.

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Toonimator
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Ah, the inevitable "The prequels have ruined the surprise, Anakin's fate should be a mystery" argument.

Sorry, doesn't wash. How would you do it? Okay, Episode III shows Anakin joins the dark side, works for the Emperor, battles Obi-Wan and falls into the lava, but is never called Darth Vader (which many say he WILL be, even before the suit), The End, that's what you want. Well anyone with an ounce of gray matter would figure it out in the next film when Ben tells Luke that Darth Vader was his pupil and betrayed and killed his father. "Uh, no he didn't, YOU just killed his father, we saw you. And Anakin was your only pupil, there was no Vader."

Basically, what those who want the "mystery" are asking for is an Episode III that doesn't deliver ANYTHING: you can't have the fall of the Jedi and Ben & Yoda going into hiding, because it'd show that Ben never taught anyone named "Vader". You can't have the duel with Anakin, because again Ben tells Luke something different. You can't have the Anakin/Palpatine relationship, because we see that Vader is the Emperor's main guy in Episode V. You can't show the twins' birth, because doing that without showing anything of what happened to Papa Skywalker and why they're separated is a copout. At best you'd have some BS like Obi-Wan walk in all messed up from a fight we don't see, again a copout, and tell Bail & such "my other student, Darth Vader, came in and betrayed us, and killed Anakin." Again, anyone with half a brain would know that anyone with the moniker "Darth" is one of the Sith, and again, Ben never taught anyone else.

so ultimately, there's no GOOD way to do Episode III and preserve the surprises of the original trilogy. You know how to get around it? Get into the characters instead. It's still a surprise for LUKE that Vader's his daddy. He doesn't know about Sith naming conventions, or that Ben only had one student (or even, until ROTJ, that Ben trained Anakin at all!), or that Leia's his sister. So you still get the surprise from the characters' POV, and that's good enough for me. Lucas wanted it to be a surprise back in 1980. That's it. It was more a convenient way to tickle the audience than anything else.

As for keeping the Vader suit outta the films until Episode IV, nah. No reason for it. Big entrance? It's not THAT big. Everyone wants to see the suit, it's possibly the most iconographic symbol of the entire saga. Keeping it out of the 3rd film does nothing to preserve the mystery of Anakin, because as soon as Leia identifies Vader by name in IV, everyone will know who he is. The majority of fans would feel teased & let down if the suit did NOT appear in ROTS. Which is probably the main reason the suit's been featured in the trailers.

I hope this film delivers! Looks good so far, with only a few "bad" things (Yoda acting goofy and potentially farting, for one). The toys are fantastic. Flipping through the Visual Dictionary and Art/Making-of books teased me with some great designs. I'm hoping for the best.

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[ April 27, 2005, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Charles ]

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