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Author Topic: Alternative forms of information
Animation Pimp
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No agenda here...just wanted to provide the websites that carry alternative and generally well informed articles on the recent events and political/economic activity in general.

I'm sure there are many others
www.commondreams.org
a collection of interesting articles from various magagazines and newspapers.
www.thenation.com
-very left, sometimes dull, but always informed
www.michaelmoore.com
provide a lot of interesting links and discussion groups.
www.salon.com
one of the biggest independent media sources
www.straightgoods.com (Canadian)
I just found this one. don't know much about it.
www.projectcensored.org
each year they publish a book focussing on events/topics etc... that were censored the previous year.
www.adbusters.org

Also...I highly recommend writings by Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk and Edward Said. They've all written some important work on the middle east and Fisk has interviewed Bin Laden a few times (I believe The Nation site has his 1998 interview/profile of Bin Laden).

Anyway...just for your information.

Best,
Chris


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ClosetAni1
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Oh no, no agenda. Obviously.

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www.scooterandferret.com

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ClosetAni1
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I particularly like the bit "designers have long been the foot soldiers of consumer capitalism." And I thought we were just drawing for money.

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www.scooterandferret.com

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Animation Pimp
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Closet...it's there for you to take or leave. There was no need for a petty comment.
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Animation Pimp
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quote:
Originally posted by ClosetAni1:
I particularly like the bit "designers have long been the foot soldiers of consumer capitalism." And I thought we were just drawing for money.

Umm...what ARE you talking about here? There is absolutely no reference point.


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ClosetAni1
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Don't you read your own websites? It's a quote straight from the first page of adbuster.org. I'm just wondering why you're posting a link to a site revolving around the defacement of private property.

Here's a another petty comment, Chris. I found your reply only because I was showing someone else your post. Yet you responded to both of my posts within minutes. You are baiting this board with your agenda and waiting for the chance to jump on someone. Reply all you want, I have to get back to work.

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www.scooterandferret.com


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LightwaveDave
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Are "Alternative" and "Leftist" considered synonymous? Just curious.
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Animation Pimp
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Umm...golly....gee...gosh.. if you consider trying to improve your life and those around you through the acquisition of knowledge, understanding, and reason an agenda...then yeah I've got one....a REAL big one.

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BoyWonder
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ClosetAni, it's understandable that you feel a need to react somehow, and that in your mind A.P. is an appropriate target in some way, but please think carefully about who you believe the enemy is. These distinctions are only going to get harder from now on.

I don't like defending A.P., because I strongly feel that his message is usually completely obscured by the way in which he presents it, which contradicts his claims of desiring communication.

However, in this case he is just offering information. It may be information consistent with his views, but it's exactly this kind of dialogue that should be encouraged, not attacked. In the conflict we are facing, as others have said, we need to be the smarter, more informed party. If you disagree with things on those sites, consider this an opportunity to refine your arguments, strengthen your position, and convince others.

Sarcasm won't do that. You can do better - we all can. We have to.


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Scott Ruggels
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There goes Noam Chomsky... blaming the victim of a rape, because she dresses like a slut. Great....


Scott


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Scott Ruggels
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Also in the interest of providing more information (admittedly pretty right wing), I supply the following:
www.townhall.com
www.worldnetdaily.com

Scott


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malcolmlee
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This afternoon the Hon. Louis Farrakhan made a lot of the same points as A.P. and a certain other unnamed journalist/critic of an animation trade magazine, on the "Final Call" website.It was a live press conference.
When Malcolm X was murdered in New York by Moslems,he did not physically do it himself,he just created an atmosphere for it to happen via his job as a journalist/editor of the "Final Call" newspaper,by twisting his accomplishments and "spinning" historical facts.
We all know that Minister Farrakhan is against the US government,that is a fact.Now
we are faced with people among us that choose to side with him, as well as to employ his tactics here under the guise of being a "journalist" and a "critic".
I say that you are "pimping" our system of freedom of speech, and then you sqirm and claim to us that your agenda is benign?!?
It seems like this whole conflict will create some unholy alliances between nations,countries and certain individuals.

How dare you talk to anyone on this board like that.


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ClosetAni1
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BoyWonder, I've observed Chris from way back. Take a look at his article about why Canadian animation is vastly superior than American animation. Chris is not interested in voicing a reasonable opinion, he is here to generate hate. Not to mention that one of the websites he is directing you to supports illegal activities.

The emperor has no clothes, Chris. I know exactly why you're here, and so do the people in charge of this board. You're busted.

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www.scooterandferret.com


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Charles
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Pimp, Pimper, Pimpest.

Gee willikers, Chris. What can we do to make you happy? Look at both sides of the issue? Show you some respect? Pretend like you're important?

Okee dokee. We'll do that. And much, much, more. We'll let you say what you want to say and leave you in peace. Don't worry about a 757 landing on your head tonight, ol' Pimperooni. But if it does, it sure ain't someone from Animation Nation who did it.

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ClosetAni1
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Pimoerooni... Charles made my giggle for tonight.

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www.scooterandferret.com

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Charles
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Show respect, ClosetAni. It's Pimperooni.

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Nodah
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I'd like a large Pimperooni & Cheese, with Chicago style crust, please.
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malcolmlee
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Note that I was trying to be nice to this Pimp person,but his views support sedition and tyranny.There is always a Judas in the group,so keep on Pimpin,you broke down pimp!
Being nice allowed for a ton of terrorist to live right here among us...IN MY F**KIN CITY,
IN MY DAMN COMMUNITY(san diego-lemon grove)!!!
THIS MAKES ME SICK!!!9@!*&#!@#^$!#&!!!!

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Dave is
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I think I understand Chris now. I think I really do. What he wants is for all of us to have all the information and not to look to only one source. Agree or disagree I think that is his point. Trying to keep all doors to information open. It is up to the reader to see what is their truth. In that sense he is more a devils advocate . His timing is not always correct but in a way he has spurred a lot of important discussion. I would not read so much into the links he has posted and look more at his reason for doing so. The motive is not as destructive as it appears.

On Farrakhan , I do not hate him but I too blame him for sponsoring the attitude that murdered Malcom X . Malcom X was far more powerful by the time he left the Moslem leadership and a threat because he had found his truth. He had learned that hate only brought hate and his character was strong enough to change his direction .What a sad loss for the entire American community.


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Fooksie
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I like the cut of your jib, Charles.
I don't know you from Adam but I owe you a firm and hearty handshake.

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" Every move a picture! "
Buddy Love

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Jon
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Gosh, Malcolmlee, it sounds like YOU might be sick of being the good will ambassador to the world, too.

Our club meets tonight in the Tree-House behind Old Lady Robinson's garage, if you're interested.


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ClosetAni1
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My apologies for the typo Charles. You're right. It's Pimporooni.

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ClosetAni1
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Pimperooni.

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www.scooterandferret.com

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ClosetAni1
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You know Dave, when people come to a message board to play devil's advocate, a lot of people call them trolls.

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Dave is
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I doubt that Chris is a troll. Nor is Amid. I feel strong enough about what I know to "tolerate" others opinions. By devils advocate I mean alternative view. The important thing to me is to be sure of how I feel and I cannot do that by limiting my information. Trolling is purposely trying to cause trouble ClosetAni1 . Personally, I don't see that being the motivation. I think he believes in what he is posting. Even if you disagree with what he is saying.
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ClosetAni1
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No disrespect Dave. I've been told to call em as I see em. Amid has nothing to do with it.

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ClosetAni1
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I'm not specifically accusing anyone of trolling, but if a certain someone is here to harass, the best thing to do is leave him alone.

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www.scooterandferret.com

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BoyWonder
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If you don't specifically accuse anyone of trolling, I won't specifically accuse anyone of looking for a scapegoat out of understandable but misdirected grief and anger. Deal?

I believe that the heart of the fanatics' evil was intolerance. Intolerance taken to an unfathomable extreme. But we are all capable of intolerance, and until we deal with it in ourselves, we won't be able to defeat it in others.

We're particularly vulnerable right now because at some level we're all just looking for someone, anyone, to strike out at. Because we feel helpless in the wake of what's happened. As they're saying in another thread, far better to combat the helplessness with creativity rather than misdirected anger.

Some, myself included, want that creativity to take the form of discussion, dialogue, even careful debate. Because we're facing a hell of a lot of very difficult questions, and you don't solve difficult questions by waving a flag. If this kind of discussion is not something you feel ready to engage in at this point, because very understandably your emotions are still too raw to distinguish criticism from attack, then please, try to avoid it. And please try to refrain from venting anger at those who do want to have those discussions.


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ClosetAni1
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Your sympathy is sweet, albeit misdirected. My sentiments are with Charles. I promise you, I would never give anyone on this board a hard time without permission.

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ClosetAni1
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Except for Dave of course. "Irritate Dave more often" was one of my New Year's Resolutions.

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Dave is
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Lol. Wish I could help you there but t's not gonna happen.
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Charles
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Just want to say something about Amid since his name was mentioned here and since he had nothing to do with anything along this thread.

Amid is my friend. I have a great deal of respect for him. I've met him face to face. He's attended the annual Animation Nation meetings. He's an intelligent, concsientious gentleman who publishes an excellent animation magazine of which I am proud to be a sponsor of through the advertising I do.
Amid can say what he wants, even if his position is contrary to those of most of the people here.

Please practice tolerance.

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Charles
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I'd also like to formally apologize to Amid on behalf of this web site and its membership for comments that others have made towards him which were innapropriate, and I ask him to stay strong as he must put into practice a level of tolerance in his life which is greater than what is expected of others.

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Codrick
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Here are a few more sites:
http://www.cbn.com/
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/index.html
http://www.MediaTransparency.org/
http://www.aclj.org/
http://aim.org/
http://www.frc.org/
http://www.salon.com/
http://209.41.174.82/creator.html
http://civilliberty.about.com/index.htm
http://209.41.174.82/atrocity/index.html
http://animationnation.com/index.htm
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/

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Dave is
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Well, to clarify actually Amid does have something to do with this thread. His point of view was definately an "alternate" point of view. He was attacked for it and hence the reference. Your emphasis of tolerance is well taken Charles.
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Charles
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Right on, Dave.

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ClosetAni1
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I third the apology to Amid. He has always posted with dignity.

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www.scooterandferret.com

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papercut
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quote:
Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

Albert Einstein

quote:
Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.

Mohandas Gandhi

quote:
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire

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