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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » Time for America to watch its back (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Time for America to watch its back
Jon
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So why are camel-jockies flying our airplanes into the World Trade Center? They're doing it with the money we've graciously shared with them. We're throwing jobs and dollars out the window, and they're buying knives to stab us in the back.

Screw that. Pull in the oars. I'm done being the good will ambassador to the rest of this messed up world.


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John
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Straight up!!!! Word!!
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KitsuneStudios
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I'm betting even money that this was an inside job: Americans who knew the system. When the Pittsburg crash is analyzed we'll know then.

Save your hatred for when the facts are known: nothing will be gained from anger and blind xenophobia. This is a time for sorrow and companionship. A time to celebrate the unnamed heroes; those who remained calm in the face of catastrophe. To those on the diverted flight, and the fine men and women of the NYPD and NYFD who gave their lives to save others.

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Instant Philosopher: Just add hot topic and agitate!


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Map
IEcm
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Funny here we are on Animation Nation complaining what is going on the animation industry..

Well I think today we are putting it all on the sidelines...after we are just trying to figure out what happen today in New York and Washington DC.?


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Otterslide
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Now now, let's not resort to reactionary name calling. This is a horrible, sick, and evil act, but not every "camel jockey", as you put it, had something to do with it. Labeling an entire people (or in this case, many "peoples") as backstabbers doesn't help things in the slightest.

We're in the enviable poistion of being the big guy on the block. Attempting to foster good will in the world is important, even if it's not always appreciated and is used against us in the end. Yes we should go after those responsible and yes we should use whatever the means at our disposal to do it, within reason. But we can't turn our backs on those in the world that truly need our help just because some dispicable people take advantage of us.

Frankly, we have to big enough to roll with the punches. Even this one, to some degree (albeit a very small roll, like not turning Afgahnistan into one large piece of glass just to get at a handful of people).

It's a global world, whether we like it or not. Welcome to the 21st century.

That said, I hope they nail the bastards behind this. AND nail them to a cross for all the world to see.

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Bryon E. Carson, Proprietor
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Twedzel
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What is a "Camel Jockey", could somebody please fill me in? And please don't tell me it akin to a "Gook"! My ears really don't like such blind racism.
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Otterslide
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Akin to "gook"? It's racist slang, and all racist slang is akin to one another.

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Bryon E. Carson, Proprietor
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Codrick
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HEY CHARLES!!!!
If people aren't careful on this thread, it could end up like the Yahoo! message board on this same topic. If you want to see how scary some people can REALLY be, check that site out...but please nip it in the butt here...
http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=NEWS&action=l&ft=1&board=37138445&sid=37138445&title=Plane%20Strikes%20Trade%20Center%2C%20Building%20Aflame&tid=nmcrashtradecenterdc&date=09 -11-2001&url=dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010911/ts/crash_tradecenter_dc_1.html

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AMID
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Pathetic Jon.
Ignorant and pathetic.

Amid
http://www.AnimationBlast.com


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Codrick
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...and scary. But definetly ignorant, pathetic, and sad.
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cshoe
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Amid- I really respect your website and what you have to say, but calling people names, no matter how wrong they may be, is beneath you, just as it is beneath Mr. McClenahan. Others have already said as much. I am sure he regrets his words. Let's not fight or argue. Not now. Please?
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ClosetAni1
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Not sure that it is an inside job. Seems they've linked one of the terrorists on board to Ben (sp?) Ladin...

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www.scooterandferret.com

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Twedzel
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Akin to "gook"? It's racist slang, and all racist slang is akin to one another.

Actually Otterslide this is exactly what I was getting at, I'm not so stupid as not be able to put two and two together... I was playing ignorant to make a point! Mabey just not making that point clear enough.


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Charles
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Let's be level headed and composed. We've all gotten along just fine up until now, in spite of our occasional spats here on AN. Now's not the time to lose our cool.

In honor of the great American right to freedom of speech, guaranteed to us by our constitution, which the founding fathers of our country fought, suffered and died for, as well as American citizens througout the subsequent generations, comments from this thread will not be deleted or edited.

I ask only that you think about what you're saying before you say it.

The anger many people are feeling is perfectly understandable, but it's not doing any good by directing it at each other or blindly accusing those who are mourning this tragedy as much as any American citizen.

Let's put into practice the qualities that make this country and the American people great. We can start with poise, rational thinking, a stiff upper lip and compassion.

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bronnie
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This horrible day will be in our memories for as long as we live. This act, this carnage, these many losses of life are truly beyond tragic and complely unforgivable. . Seeing those people dancing in the streets celebrating the attack was vile and sickening. And sure,it's encouraging and cathartic to think,as Mr. Bush seems to, that there is some tangiable way to punish these cowardly bastards. Fact is,though,that this is not a NATION that has attacked us, it's (at this point,way more than likely) a fundemantelist terrorist FACTION that won't be easy to pin down. How do you successfully declare war on a wild-eyed,fanatic and very well financed "group" that has been slipping through our fingers for decades? These people believe that every violent terrorist act they perpetrate will guarantee their entry into paradise with their almighty. Life and limb is not even a consideration,their own nor anyone else's. How do you even BEGIN to deal with people that far off the spool?
And Amid, I'm trying very hard to see your points made on the other thread concerning the other perspectives,but frankly,if these guys want sympathy and support for what they see as having have suffered at America's "evil" hands, this was ABSOLUTELY NO way to go about it! And don't forget, too that many many American lives have been heroically sacrificed in the fight for freedom in the last century,in several wars,declared(but that's another issue) or not.

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ClosetAni1
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That's true, Bronnie. No sympathy for the hijackers from me.
I've seen a lot of CNN today, and there are some possible ways the US could declare war on the terrorists, even though they are a group, not a country. Should Bush declare a "war on terrorism", the US would bomb an area and send troops in without the harboring country's cooperation. If the perps are in Afghanistan, America might need the help (or some looking-the-other-way) from neighboring coutnries like Russia. The events of the next few days will be very telling.

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www.scooterandferret.com

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Dunne
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but why generalize a preposition by labeling them "camel jockey?" How'd we like the members of Animation Nation being labeled "white trash?" Or all Christians in the U.S. being identified with the likes of Pat Robertson, Eric Rudolph, or henious likes of the Rev. Fred Phelps? The individuals that perpetrated and aided in this horrendous act will be take care of. "CAMEL JOCKEY?" My very close friend has neighbors who are Palestinian refugees, and she told me tonight that they are HORRIFIED at what's happened, but even more scared for their children's safety.

Can you say "Manzanar?"

Enough said.


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Dunne
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And a look into our not to recent past shows that we (the U.S.) supported Afghanistan in their fight against Russia. As a matter of fact, most of their weapons are American Made. Oh geez--it's all so complicated...ugh!
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Twedzel
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Its just I cringe when I see the dehumanization represented in a language. Its the very essence of what allows us not to see people as thinking caring human beings who have all the love and pain in life that we have. It allows these terrorists to do what they did today, and makes lesser human beings of us all. Peace begins with understanding, understanding begins with empathy.
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Twedzel
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However, having said that I also beleive that the people guilty of todays crimes should be found and dealt with, not out of a sense of righteous vengence... but so they cannot repeat this action or escalate it. The network they have in place that allows them to exsist should be dismantled to the best of our capabilities.
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Jon
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There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:
a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,
a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance,
a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away,
a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak,
a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

You want to shake your delicate little fingers at someone? Shake it at the cowards who inflict their hit-and-run tactics on defenseless people, who would never dare show their miserable faces on a battlefield.

Don't preach to me. Wake up and smell the jet fuel. America is tossing its money to people who hate them. Our balance of trade figures are pathetic.

Smug, self-righteous little artists ... buncha pencil-jockeys.


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Mozeman
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon:
You want to shake your delicate little fingers at someone? Shake it at the cowards who inflict their hit-and-run tactics on defenseless people, who would never dare show their miserable faces on a battlefield.

You're complaining about "cowards" while you blanketly blame their entire race with a moronic racial slur. Bin Laden shared that attitude enough to launch his hatred at the whole of the United States. None of that helps anyone.

I'd rather be a self-righteous artist than an obtuse and ignorant racist.


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Jon
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As for racists, the Arabs have a saying among themselves: "Me against my brothers. Me and my brothers against my cousins. Me and my cousins against the world." My Palestinian Arab brother-in-law told me that one (he doesn't like ignorant camel-jockeys either ... in fact, he might take offense that you interpret the term "camel-jockey" as "blanketly blaming an entire race.")
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Charles
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And if I may add to Solomon's words of wisdom, a time to simmer down.

Speak with dignity.

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Jon
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Yeah, yeah, Charles, I'll consider myself spanked by you, but not scolded by some holier-than-thou piss-wad.

Kick me off the board, I don't give a flying camel-jockey one way or the other. Been nice knowing you, if that's your judgement.


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Jon
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And by the way, Charles, you edited my remarks to make it look like the only thing I had to say was a comment on Palestinian Arabs' inherently violent view of life. In the meantime you leave Mozeman's aggravating "line-by-line response" to my posting intact.

Comment?


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Scott Shaw!
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Jon, I greatly respect you professionally and immensely like you personally. I certainly can't blame you for being so furious with the USA's current situation, as am I. I think we ALL want to see swift and decisive action taken against our nation's enemies, whoever they are.

But please, no one here is "the enemy". And calling your peers "smug, self-righteous little artists", "pencil-jockeys" (when did you stop being a cartoonist yourself?) and "holier-than-thou piss-wads" reflects extremely poorly on our profession, Startoons and yourself. And no matter what your intended context for "camel jockeys" may have been, it's no wonder why my pal Amid took offense at your remark. I did too (and I'm about as lily-white and ethnically-challenged as they come!)

Please don't take this wrong, my friend, but I really think you owe the good folks here at Animation Nation, whatever their opinion, a sincere apology.

Scott!


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Charles
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I wasn't singling you out, Jon. You made a couple of personal insults against someone by name. I didn't want to see this thing break down.

My comments about keeping your cool and speaking with dignity are intended for everyone.

I'm just as pissed off about this as you are and it's tough moderating the board when everytime I see those planes smashing through the towers and the people crying in the streets, all I want to do is lash out.

We are now at war and wars are fought and won by unity, resolute determination and clear headed thinking and that's what I want to encourage.

Many people look up to you and see you as a leader and a model for our industry. I'm not judging you at all and I understand your feelings completely. But you've been on this board for a long time and you are a national figure in animation, so keep that in mind when you make your comments.

I'd appreciate it very much if everyone would please be a little sensitive to the feelings and emotions of others at this time. Have some patience. Stop being so thin skinned. If someone makes a remark that you have a problem with, take a deep breath, step away from your computer and leave your response after you've given yourself time to think about it. Consider what the other person is going through and don't get so bent out of shape if something is said that doesn't sit well with you.

This situation is not going to go away anytime soon. Dig in mentally and emotionally.

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malcolmlee
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Personally,I feel Jon should be allowed and excused to say whatever he wants to as long as he is on the side of freedom;American style.
Those who would be offended by his words obviously have sympathetic leanings towards our clear enemy.We created racial slurs so now we should live with it,like it or not.
People,Jon is a man who is forced to do bussiness with people other than US citizens,outside of American territory.He knows how hated we are by those we would love to believe are our allies and friends.You need to look past the words that bother you and understand the relevance from the MAN they are coming from.
Our allies hate us because we are so successful.All we need to do is,as in the case of Hiroshima,remind the world of our power and undefeatable strenghth to conquer.
Keep your friends close,and your enemies closer.
(Now I am taking a shot of whiskey with Jon for ALL of my friends of all races creeds and colors who were assasinated on Tuesday.Your deaths will be avenged!)

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Charles
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Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. But justice is something that we can pursue.

If we enter into this thing with an eye for eye and a tooth for a tooth mentality, we're as bad as those who pervert the teachings of Islam for their own twisted purposes. A bunch of sightless maniacs with no bite. Only throwing wild punches that in the case of Tuesday's masacre, found it's mark.

They've done nothing but awakened the sleeping giant.

My concern is that this ongoing threat to worldwide peace be dealt with and eliminated once and for all. As Senator McCain said, "God may show you mercy, but we will not."

I pray that we can get this over with without spilling innocent blood.

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malcolmlee
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I have no sympathy for the devil.The lord is on the side of the USA!!!
I fully expect and at this point need to see collateral damage:guilty,innocent,whatever.
They will be in the wrong place at the wrong time if they are in enemy territory when we direct the wrath of God on thier heathenous souls.
May they all burn in hell.

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BoyWonder
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It's very sobering to have a glimpse down the road of blind hatred. Thank you for that reminder. I honestly don't understand how you can invoke the name of the Lord and the ideals of the United States to advocate the death of innocent people.

This is a good time to reflect on some of those ideals upon which the United States was founded: protection of the innocent, punishment of the guilty. If we abandon those ideals, where is our greatness?

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights applies to all people, regardless of citizenship or religion.


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Twedzel
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Allright I know this will cause flames, but how do you know God is on your side? Did God tell you this? Wrath of god? If I remember the bible right, God is quit capable of inflicting Gods own wrath. I also remember a few words on the score of if your slapped give your enemies the other cheek, it is not your place to judge that is in the realm of God, Let the sinless do the stoning, and finally right out in front "Thou shalt not kill" in very plain letters NO EXCEPTIONS PROVIDED...
My point is that this is a war involving men, don't drag God into our pettiness, or you become no better than those who have comitted these most baseless sins.

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Dave is
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I agree Twedzel. This isn't the work of God or Allah or any spirit within. This was not even a political act. It was the act of man. I don't agree with Jon that because you are hurt by someone that you drop all your civility and become what these people want you to be. Become their puppets. It's exactly what they want us to do. Lash out blindly. Are we that easily controlled ? The enemy will become clear so stop pointing at everyone to vent your rage. Everyone should stop here. Right now. Act like grown ups. Becoming like the animals that did this will make you weaker, not stronger. I choose not to be a slave to them by letting them run my life or make me a different person. Instead I choose to do the opposite. Become smarter. More tolerant. Better informed . In doing so become the most dangerous opponent. One that cannot be manipulated. One that cannot be swayed. Look around you and take a look at how this country is pulling together. How the world is pulling together. This isn't Americas worst moment, it is it's finest. It's very finest. All I see is the love that is being shown, the incredible effort. It is the most amazing and inspiring thing I have ever seen in my entire life.
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cshoe
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Well put, Mr. Brewster! I cannot agree more. You just can't fight intolerance with intolerance. We need to be better and more intelligent than that as a nation, and I think we can be. Besides, what can be gained by expending our passions arguing amongst ourselves?
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silverthorn
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Hi gang. I have to say I agree totally with Brewster. I'm getting into this late as I've been held up at an airport for the last couple of days. I must say it was inspiring to see the brave face the airline industry was putting on as the news & rumours of hi-jacking after hi-jacking & crash after crash of their collegues dominoed in. Also I found it incredible that though people from all over the world had their lives thrown into complete chaos in a foreign town they weren't travelling to for an unknown period of time by an event thousands of miles away with information on their futures that was consistantly erronious or non-existant, I didn't see anyone whine or complain at all. It was understood that we're the lucky ones -Others have experienced unimaginable horrors, & many others who are thrown into the thick of this thing are scarred & affected by this for life. If anything good can come out of this mess, then maybe it will be that we won't take our freedoms for granted any more, like the rest of the world has been dealing with for years. Our laise-fair airport security & borders are probably things of the past, all because of the ignorance brainwashed into children in an intollerant society. Ignorance is the real enemy. Sorry for sounding maudlin, but these are unbelievably crazy times.
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John
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I really want to agree with you guys, I
REALLY do! "We are better than these monsters, lets show the world that we can
rise above this, and not stoop to the level
of the barbarians."
However, I cannot! If you check the pulse of
the nation,you'll find that most people share
Jon's opinion (As do I) and dont wish to
hear anymore whining about tollerance and
understanding as to why this happened.
They want REVENGE!! And damn it, so do I!!
You hit me,, I'll hit you TEN TIMES OVER!!
Those bastards MURDERED thousands of my
fellow Americans,..mothers, fathers, sons and
daughters,.. and now I want to hurt them!!
Terrorists only understand terror!!
If you dont have the guts to stand up to
these animals, and kill them as they would
gladly kill you and your family, friends and
co-workers, then GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY
of those of us who do!!!!

NUKE THE BASTARDS!!!


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Tobias A. Wolf
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I'm Jewish and I hate to say this but the U.S. is not only the victim of Palestinian ideological pollicies but Israel's as well.
Not many people that I've talked to in the past about the Israeli conflict have been interested. But, it just seemed like trouble when Sharron was elected last year.
I think it was the hopes of those that sacrificed their lives that a nation would listen to the suffering that has been brought upon a race of people.
They have fought rockets with rocks to defend their homes for generations now.
The heat needs to be put on Israel to stop expanding into other peoples homes with terror.
Israel's policies have consumed our country and it's peace. We have a homeland and it's time to fu*kin draw a border.

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Dave is
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John. Might be a good idea to make sure you nuke the people who actually did it otherwise you are no better. It doesn't take "guts" to kill innocents out of blind rage. I though we already had the proof of that in the 5000 bodies under the rubble . I'll tell you what takes "guts". That's what it takes to walk upright when some bodies hurt you , to chose your time and place. Nobody is saying hold holy hell back but make it mean something and not end up being played like a flute. Everyone is hurt. We all feel like I rode into the tower with them. Making more innocents pay wont bring them back or do the dead justice. Making the guilty pay will at least do them the honor they deserve.
You want to hurt somebody, who doesn't. Get in line. The rage doesn't need explanation. What you do about it will. Have faith in your president. . Bush is an amazing man. I am completely in awe of his ability to wait for the proper target. To make it as sure as it will be deadly. In the face of all he has seen John that is guts. If you saw his face today you know he is raging himself and nothing is going to stop him till justice is fully served. If I were the guilty , I sure as hell would be in terror,

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AMID
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I agree with your statement that Bush is an amazing man but amazing for the wrong reasons. I watched a press conference with him yesterday and the man can barely speak in complete sentences. He did however comfort us with vague terms that a third-grader might use like "whipping terrorism." He has no understanding of the larger picture. He struggled to answer a reporter's simple question about the role of Pakistan in this situation. Of course, we all forgive him because of that well placed theatrical tear. You can be sure he was instructed by his aides to quiver those lips a bit to gain our sympathy, but a great leader like Martin Luther King could inspire and lead the masses through speaking with power and eloquence, not by 99 cent acting skills.

Amid
http://www.AnimationBlast.com


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