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Author Topic: Squiggle Vision
tourdeforce
IE # 41
Member # 788

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Ok the general feeling I get from those who have strong opinions about animation is that they don't like anything that Tom Snyder's Soup 2 Nutz produces. And that includes me. So far I've seen Dr. Katz, bits of that Adult Swim/ UPN show (that is Soup 2 Nutz, isn't it?), a cartoon they produced for Oxygen, that "Edutainment"-type show for kids they made a while back, and a Flash cartoon on CartoonNetwork.com.

But someone obviously likes this stuff-- they continue to make it. I suspect I've answered my own question about who likes SquiggleVision: Non-artists. But that's the reason I'm bringing this up here... discuss Squiggle Vision!

Does any animation enthusiast enjoy it? (I'll confess now that I had a chuckle or two while watching Dr. Katz while drunk at 3 in the morning back in school.... ah, to be young again.)

-McD


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Slappy
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When you say SquigleVision Chris, I assume you mean animation which apears badly in-betweened because the lines 'boil'.

While I am not a fan of bad in-betweening, I am okay with it being used as a legitimate technique. For instance, I think it was used to great efect in the NFB short "The Cat Came Back'. And, in the case of Dr. Katz, (which is the only thing on your list I've actually seen) I felt the squiggly line was being nicely used to disguise the static, severely limited movement of the show.

Personally it didn't bother me, because I thought the content was hilarious and the solutions to their obvious budget constraints were clever.

Sometimes we judge form over content in animation, and I think this is short sighted. No one likes beautiful smooth, expressive animation acting more than I, but if the story is boring and the jokes are bad, no amount of lovely motion will save it. However, a less ambitious sort of movement can be just as enjoyable if the content is top drawer. Some of the interplay between Katz and his son is amongst the funniest stuff ever captured on film! Who cares if the lines wiggle a bit...


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tourdeforce
IE # 41
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Oh I have nothing against using a wiggly line in cartoons, I agree that "The Cat Came Back" is an example of good use, as well is "Lupo the Butcher" or anything Bill Plymton makes. I was just using the term "Squiggle Vision" because that is Tom Snyder's company's term for it. They might even have a copyright on it, I believe.

As far as the Dr. Katz show, like I said I laughed at some of the dialog between the son and dad myself, 'cause it was funny. And I think some of the holds on blank eyeballs or slight twitches of the face they animated really punctuated the dry humor.

So what was my point after all.. hmm... I dunno...

-McD


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jenner
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or Don Hertzfeld? love his films.

When I need to relax a bit I animate some squiggly traced-back stick figure being hit by a bus er sumpthin. It's really fun after coming down off of some strictly modeled project.

What I am not a fan of is badly drawn shows like rugrats. Infact..trace-backs might make it fit a style more. But that's probably too expensive.


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SaraCastic
IE # 83
Member # 92

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That show "Home Movies" which I guess is now on Cartoon Network Adult Swim uses the Squigglevision thingy.

Sqigglevision DOES NOT refer to every cartoon with sqiggly lines. I believe it is a term specific to the 2d pixelated squiggily computer animated stuff, coined by the people who created the style (Dr. Katz, Home Movies)

I don't really like it now.. but if it had been around when I was younger.. and beginning to experiment with my computer, I would have been enraptured with it... simply because it seems like it would be easy to mimic with Mac Paint.


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gus
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McDee....good point about the nfb stuff... think the squiggle stuff came from times when the nfb didn't want to have levels of levels of cel ( thats plastic sheets for you digital paint kids) obscuring the backgrounds and to save on money..it was cheaper to hire people to do tons of trace backs with crappy pens and brushes and no lights in the freezing cold of canadian winter!.. so it's neat to see an imperfection of the past made into an "art form" now!..
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AMID
IE # 43
Member # 289

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My opinion about Tom Snyder cannot be expressed in any polite terms on this board. It's nothing short of disgusting that so many animation execs let this guy parade his inept junk across the airwaves. To understand Snyder's thinking, check out these comments he made in a 1998 interview in GADFLY magazine...

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Tom Snyder: "First and foremost, we have never hired anyone trained in animation. We only hire illustrators. If you bring in animators, they'll bring you a guy jumping over a fence they've worked on for nine weeks. We like the immediacy and uncarefulness of Dr. Katz's style. Most animators, especially if they're guys in their 20s, can only draw large-breasted women and guys with huge muscles because they're really into Japanese cartoon ****. It just depresses the hell out of me. It's been elevated to an art form because the Japanese do such a good job, and it's got this cultural chic about it, but we couldn't be less interested in any of that junk."

When asked, "What cartoons did you watch growing up?
Snyder's response: "None actually. Well, maybe ROCKY AND BULLWINKLE. I didn't like cartoons that much. I found them kind of boring. I watched ROCKY AND BULLWINKLE even though I couldn't stand Rocky because I could tell it was a woman's voice. It was sickening somehow. It was well, is it a guy or a woman? But it was very clever writing.

The way we run our studio is that audio and performance are king...Yes, I think really the only reason I use animation is because I'm so into the audio performance.
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Kind of leaves you speechless.

Amid
http://www.AnimationBlast.com


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bronnie
IE # 93
Member # 25

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Well Amid, your post so perfectly illustrating Snyder's arrogance explains a lot--to me at least. About a year ago, I happened to have the TV on in the background,wasn't paying attention, not watching the screen--I was doing something else-cleaning a closet or something..Anyway,I could hear what sounded like rather amusingly written banter and turned to see what it was...GOOD GAWD- I was appalled! Turns out it was that Squiggle vision **it! An absolute affront and insult to the visual senses,(let alone to anyone in our industry who has given a flying f*** about what was on the screen)--stopping just short of "Faces of Death" in my opinion...Hideous.
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Charles
Administrator
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Amid Amidi. Editor and owner of Animation Blast. Telling it like it is. The courage to report the facts, say what he feels and to speak the truth. Real journalism.

Animation Magazine. A fluffer's paradise. Another fine example of squiggle vision.

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tourdeforce
IE # 41
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Amid, you have all the good quotes! What a bastard that guy is (for animation, anyway). I hereby formally retract my above statements that I ever laughed at a Tom Snyder production!

And another thing I'm pissed about: National Missile Defense... F**k that s**t!

-McD


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tourdeforce
IE # 41
Member # 788

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Amid, you have all the good quotes! What a bastard that guy is (for animation, anyway). I hereby formally retract my above statements that I ever laughed at a Tom Snyder production!

And another thing I'm pissed about: National Missile Defense... F**k that s**t!

-McD


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tourdeforce
IE # 41
Member # 788

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oops... double post. shouldn't have hit the "back" button. And you're kidding me, we can't edit our own posts on this board? I'll have to watch what I say!

-McD


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Scott Ruggels
IE # 56
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I Hate "home Movies, and Dr. Katz.

Scott


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KitsuneStudios
IE # 156
Member # 69

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If performance is king like Tom Snyder says...

THEN WHY IS EVERYONE MUMBLING LIKE DAVID DUCHOVNEY ON VALIUM!?!

Sorry, had to get that out of my system. I've seen bits of all the "Squigglevision" shows, and none of them appeal to me for that reason: the performances are so low key that they bore, the animation uses the squiggles to mask the fact that there's less motion than a Clutch Cargo cartoon, and neither of those are enough to keep me interested long enough to even care about the story.

To my knowledge, "Home Videos" lasted for only a few shows before being yanked originally. Cartoon Network must really be hurting for acceptable 'adult content' shows if that's what they've got to use.

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Instant Philosopher: Just add hot topic and agitate!


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Slappy
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Just because Snyder has a cynical attitude doesn't mean the show, and the technique, aren't effective.

I still like some of it myself.


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