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Author Topic: Democratic Convention '08
The Mod
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Opening it up for discussion if like. Keep it clean.
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Mel Allen Sink
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Watching it on PBS.

Although it's more like background noise for me....

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spacelobster
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I heard an interesting NPR piece talking about how there hasn't been a contested nomination since the time of nixon, so it's pure pageant. Someone half-seriously suggested they should get sports writers to cover it in an interesting way, since there isn't much "news" to expect out of it.

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Mel Allen Sink
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Reagan did cause a lot of trouble for Ford in '76.

Ted Kennedy caused a lot of trouble for Carter in '80. They even had people wearing "no robot" armbands at the convention to protest the rules.

I have no idea why either person wanted to bring down an incumbent in their own party.

It will be interesting to see if Hillary spoils it this year with the women in the party.

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-FP-
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The convention was interesting for a little while, until DEMOCRACY NOW's coverage ended at 1:00 PM. Then SPONGEBOB, FUTURAMA, SOUTH PARK and finally ADULT SWIM proved superior background entertainment.

Tonight at 11 when DAILY SHOW returns, convention news might get interesting again.


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Thomas
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The "Recreate 68" decides to live up to it's name yesterday afternoon and evening.

Denver Riot

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DEMOCRACY NOW covered that a couple of hours ago. There are cops with no ID and full-tilt riot gear, stopping people at random, stealing video equipment, laptops, cash, and even spare clothes (?), and providing incomplete receipts for seized items. They're paying special attention to those who might document illegal pig-tivities.


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Charles
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Anarchists vs facists at a ho-hum Democratic Party convention. Gotta do something for entertainment I suppose. How times have changed.

Denver police 1, Denver deadbeats 0. Looks like the anarchists really lived up to their name. No organization, no planning, no strategy except for bags of piss to toss and spray paint for grafiti.

And no news coverage except for the Web.

At the convention at Chicago in '68 there were thousands upon thousands of protesters, and the police only wore helmets and wielded batons. Those were the days. If you want to re-create an angry mob, then initiate the draft for college age kids to send them off to combat for an unpopular war. I think then they might have a chance.

There was a time when a political convention would convene and it wouldn't be clear who the party's candidate would be. It was exciting. Now of course it's a different story. Anyway, it could be worse.

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Charles
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Check it out, the Denver police have more body armor than our combat troops in Iraq. And it looks brand spanking new as well.

Getting back to the convention, I had a chance to watch some of it this evening. Regardless of the rhetoric and what the modern day convention has become, I found it refreshing in a way. Change is good and we need it. There's things I like and dislike about each candidate, but whoever wins, Obama or McCain, either one will be better for the country than what we've had. Bush made us tense, with these guys I'm not quite as uptight when I listen to them speak. I'm not harboring any illusions that it won't be business as usual, but at least we'll have someone who's a more eloquent speaker and communicator and can articulate their ideas more effectively.

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Charles
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Obama gave a rousing speech last night on the final day of the convention. He's a charismatic speaker. McCain has his work cut out for him.

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GaryClair
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I think people should have to pass a test on current events in order to vote.
I really do.

The "Vote for Voting's sake" mentality really should go.. there's too much at risk for a popularity contest.

I heard twice today... no lie "Whoah.. have you seen Governor Palin?? She's hot! I'm gonna vote for McCain now. And i've heard "GILF" and "VPILF" already.

I DEMAND EDUCATED VOTERS!!!

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SNAKEBITE
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The conventions remind me of highschool pep rallies.

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Charles
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At first I couldn't figure out what Gary was talking about, then I realized it must have something to do with McCain's choice of his vice presidential running mate.

He made the announcement today. She's the Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26456114/?GT1=43001

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JDC
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I wonder which convention will have the highest attendance.. Dems, Repubs, or San Diego.. ?

[biggrin]

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rocktoonz
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Sarah Palin? I don't understand, I must be missing something....
Bring on the debates.

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GaryClair
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Sarah Palin= McCain's smartest choice for a running mate.

Either her or Ron Paul would have given him a boost in the ratings.

The GOP was starting to look like the beginning of The Lord of the Rings.. the 9 greedy old human Kings.

Palin gives them a 'sexy cool' edge. But the democrats have a strong lead so far.

OH, and a MILF is a Mom I'd Like to F**k
a Gilf is a Governer
and VPILF is a Vice President

As they said in LA, Hang with the slang, mang.

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-FP-
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quote:
Palin gives them a 'sexy cool' edge
Wha? She's a pro-lifer who wants to ban all abortions even when birth would kill the mother. She wants creationism taught in public schools. Those two things alone brand her as grossly unsuitable for national public office, and there's more bad stuff about her, which I'm sure will pop up in discussion later. How is that a 'sexy cool edge'?

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Paburrows
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"But the democrats have a strong lead so far."
Actually ever since the Religious debates Omaba has been going downhill in the polls and the big bounce that was supposed to come out of the convention was actually more downhill. Ombama & McCain is actually Neck & Neck. And that was before the VP Annpumcement.

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Paburrows
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I know that theres a lot of women voters during the convention that said that they were angry at the way that Hilery was treated and were thinking of voting for McCain. This VP selection is just going to tip the scales on their decision.

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akinney
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his choice shows his desperation. At best he's tied in polls and losing in most. When the GOP has a tight race in Montana you know they are not doing well - he knows it and if he doesn't take chances he is sure to lose. My opinion anyway.
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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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quote:
I wonder which convention will have the highest attendance.. Dems, Repubs, or San Diego.. ?
I did a quick search:

125,000 attended San Diego in 2007.

More than 75,000 pack [Denver] stadium to hear Obama

15,000 journalists are attending the Democratic Convention.

12,000 attended the Republican convention.

San Diego wins.

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Mel Allen Sink
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So how do you pronounce VPILF?

I'm still trying to intuit if picking Plain is a gimmick or if it's crazy like a fox.

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Charles
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An analysis from Yahoo News of McCain's VP choice:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/12997

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GaryClair
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FP- I just meant in the looks dept. Everything else about her gives me the heebie jeebies.. and scares me to think that she got as far as she did.. I feel sorry for the people of Alaska!!
She's a creationist for pete's sake! Yikes!

I don't think America could survive another republican term. Just LOOK around!

Some fun facts about her..

- Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

- She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000.

- Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools!!!!!!!

- She won't even consider that humans are the cause of climate change.

- She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species—she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.

These religious conservatives.. ok, I admit.. are very cute and have big big hearts.. but back in the day of horse and buggys.. but Here, and in the now.. with nuclear weapons and modern problems.. are very antiquated people. We need intelligent people in office who don't base their judgements on mythology written over 2000 years ago. Sorry!

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LeftyMcKay
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quote:
Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools!!!!!!!
This isn't quite true, according to a 2006 interview.

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms: "I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum." She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

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Thomas
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It's smart on McCain's part since he doesn't really excite his base, in fact his base pretty much despises him.

I still feel the choices this year represents the Kobayashi Maru for people like me.

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GaryClair
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Actually.. I agree with Thomas [Big Grin]
[cheers]

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Squash Banana
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Hi.

With all due respect, back the heck off. Politics aside, I am completely sick of hearing about how unintelligent religious people are, and I'm supposed to just sit here and take it. Is it so impossible to believe that two people of the same intelligence can come to different conclusions? Why am I expected to respect the opinions of people who insult me?

Specifically pertaining to the topic of Creationism, I personally believe that Evolution and Creationism do not conflict at all, but that Creationism should not be taught as science in public schools. However, if someone disagrees with me, I HARDLY think that's the most "dangerous" position one could have! Are you seriously suggesting that support for Creationism is as dangerous as, say, a flimsy foreign policy? Or a tax policy that places even more power in the hands of a government who has proven, time and again and regardless of the latest leadership, that it is clumsy and incapable?

Please don't be so condescending to those who disagree with you. If you insist that all people who hold the opposing view are stupid, you will reveal just how close-minded you are yourself.

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GaryClair
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With all do respects.. it does matter. And I bring it up because they bring it up.

And If we lived before nuclear, biological weapons of mass destruction.. i'd keep my mouth shut.

Lemme ask you.. What is the whole reason the world doesn't want Iran to have nuclear weapons??

...Because of their religious beliefs.

That's the same reason I don't want anyone with strong religious convictions near our button. I don't know if George Bush believes he'll bring on the second coming of christ by bringing on armageddon.

I can you claim he doesn't have these thoughts?? cause' in that tiny noggin' of his.. all these characters and stories are real. Logic doesn't apply anymore.

If he brings upon armageddon.. in his mind.. that's a good thing!

Anyone who believes in a modern day Zeus and claims to know it's wishes and way it thinks and whose side it's on.. should not hold office.

Sorry.. that's just my opinion. Let religious people govern imagination land.. or the afterlife and let level headed people in charge of reality.

That's all i'm saying.

Imagine if you will, if George Bush added things to his speech with "I believe Lucy the Leprechaun would want us to... " or "So says Puff the Magic Dragon, so say we all."

I know that sounds ridiculous to you. (or I hope it does) It sounds that ridiculous to me whenever someone in government brings up God or Muhammed or Alah

Just my opinion.. I don't mean to offend.

Religion and Government are the oldest forms of mass control.. and when they combine.. heads get butted.

Keep them separated. Our forefathers knew it. We should know it.

I mean to be respectful.. I just speak freely. Please forgive if anything I say offends. The truth often does.

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Charles
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It is written...

Take the log of fundamentalism out of your own eye before you try and take the spec of it out of someone else's.

You have your right to your beliefs Gary, political or otherwise. As a moderator here, I believe you go too far in expressing your views with the kind of zealous enthusiasm that comes from someone who expresses their beliefs by insulting the beliefs of others as consistently as you've done for God (oops) knows how long.

Mythology = The sun is Apollo on his chariot riding across the sky. That's why we have daylight.

Religious beliefs = The sun is a star 93,000,000 miles from earth around which our planet rotates and which many people believe came into being through an infinite intelligence beyond human comprehension which we call God among other things.

Vote for whomever you want to vote for, for whatever reason. Lighten up on the anti-religion stuff, we get the picture.

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Mel Allen Sink
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So is there any good polling yet over the recent events? I've heard that Obama had either no bounce or 8% bounce after the convention. Then I heard that Palin gave McCain either no bounce or 15% bounce.

If anything, I can see why people are suspicious of polls.

[ September 01, 2008, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Mod Too ]

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Paburrows
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

General Election: McCain vs. Obama

Poll Date Sample

RCP Average 08/18 - 08/31 -- Obama (D) 47.6 McCain (R)44.2 Obama +3.4

CNN 08/29 - 08/31 927 RV Obama (D) 49 McCain (R)48 Obama +1

Gallup Tracking 08/28 - 08/30 2730 RV Obama (D) 48 McCain (R) 42 Obama +6

Rasmussen Tracking 08/29 - 08/31 3000 LV Obama (D) 49 McCain (R) 46 Obama +3

Hotline/FD 08/18 - 08/24 1022 RV Obama (D) 44 McCain (R) 40 Obama +4

USA Today/Gallup 08/21 - 08/23 765 LV Obama (D) 48 McCain (R) 45 Obama +3

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Paburrows
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Im hearing though that the Ombama camp is having a hard time figuring out how to attack Palin, since shes a woman any attacks against her are going to just drive more of the Hilary voters to McCain

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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I think Obama is going to win.

That said, we'll all find out what happens in November. [Yes]

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Steve G
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First of all, keep in mind polls mean nothing and a good part of the new voters can'tr be polled since many of them don't use landlines. If polls were accurate we would be looking towards a second term with John Kerry right now and not worrying about a third one with Bush.
Secondly, all polls are self serving for the poll takers. If the polls are close then there's need for more polls - if they're far apart then polls can be less frequent and less money is paid to the poll takers. Every poll taker knows you can get whatever answer to a question you want by framing the question just right.

As far as Palin goes, my best guess is she will suddenly have to bow out of the race due to family issues (read: too much questionable baggage revealed in only 3 to 4 days) and McCain will have to accept the person Rove has been pushing for all along.

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Charles
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Steve G's post is timely. Here's the latest news. Governor Palin's 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant. She'll be having the baby and will wed the father.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26496189

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Mel Allen Sink
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Obama has publicly told the press to lay off Palin.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if he privately sicks Hillary on her.

If the emerging scandal isn't any more than a daughter being pregnant out of wedlock, I don't think that Plain has much to worry about.

I'm going to watch the GOP convention, although anything since last Friday will probably be feel anticlimactic.

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Charles
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From the newsletter of Bill Leonard, Board of Equalization, California, a conservative and a man of clear thought.

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***The Not-So Secret Virtues of Palin***

Senator McCain achieved the wow factor last Friday with his announcement that Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska would be his running mate.

The obvious virtues of Palin is her policy expertise on energy. She pushed for, and got, a $40 billion natural gas pipeline that will deliver massive reserves of North Slope natural gas to the lower 48 states. It is also widely known that she was not Senator Ted Stevens' candidate and thus has her own Maverick image.

The more I consider it, other virtues of this pick occur to me:

She is the only candidate of the four who has executive branch experience. She will be the only candidate who in the debates will be called, 'Governor', the other three being addresses as 'Senator'. My bias has always been that Senators make risky Presidents because they have not had to manage anything while be a Senator other than their own speeches. Being Governor provides valuable experience.

She is a pro-life person who demonstrated this conviction by having a fifth baby who has Down syndrome.

Many American families look just like hers. It used to be a trend, now it is the new normal: the husband having a skilled blue collar job and the wife an office job. Mr. Palin is a commercial fisherman, and off-season he is a steel worker, and a union member.

Joe Biden will have to be very skilled in his attacks given the deep alienation many Hillary supporters feel.

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LeftyMcKay
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From conservative writer and commentator Mark Steyn:

The hostess with the moosest

Over in the Frumistan province of the NR caliphate, our pal David is not happy about the Palin pick. I am - for several reasons.

First, Governor Palin is not merely, as Jay describes her, "all-American", but hyper-American. What other country in the developed world produces beauty queens who hunt caribou and serve up a terrific moose stew? As an immigrant, I'm not saying I came to the United States purely to meet chicks like that, but it was certainly high on my list of priorities. And for the gun-totin' Miss Wasilla then to go on to become Governor while having five kids makes it an even more uniquely American story. Next to her resume, a guy who's done nothing but serve in the phony-baloney job of "community organizer" and write multiple autobiographies looks like just another creepily self-absorbed lifelong member of the full-time political class that infests every advanced democracy.

Second, it can't be in Senator Obama's interest for the punditocracy to spends its time arguing about whether the Republicans' vice-presidential pick is "even more" inexperienced than the Democrats' presidential one.

Third, real people don't define "experience" as appearing on unwatched Sunday-morning talk shows every week for 35 years and having been around long enough to have got both the War on Terror and the Cold War wrong. (On the first point, at the Gun Owners of New Hampshire dinner in the 2000 campaign, I remember Orrin Hatch telling me sadly that he was stunned to discover how few Granite State voters knew who he was.) Sarah Palin and Barack Obama are more or less the same age, but Governor Palin has run a state and a town and a commercial fishing operation, whereas (to reprise a famous line on the Rev Jackson) Senator Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. She's done the stuff he's merely a poseur about. Post-partisan? She took on her own party's corrupt political culture directly while Obama was sucking up to Wright and Ayers and being just another get-along Chicago machine pol (see his campaign's thuggish attempt to throttle Stanley Kurtz and Milt Rosenberg on WGN the other night).

Fourth, Governor Palin has what the British Labour Party politician Denis Healy likes to call a "hinterland" - a life beyond politics. Whenever Senator Obama attempts anything non-political (such as bowling), he comes over like a visiting dignitary to a foreign country getting shanghaied into some impenetrable local folk ritual. Sarah Palin isn't just on the right side of the issues intellectually. She won't need the usual stage-managed "hunting" trip to reassure gun owners: she's lived the Second Amendment all her life. Likewise, on abortion, we're often told it's easy to be against it in principle but what if you were a woman facing a difficult birth or a handicapped child? Been there, done that.

Fifth, she complicates all the laziest Democrat pieties. Energy? Unlike Biden and Obama, she's been to ANWR and, like most Alaskans, supports drilling there.

Sixth (see Kathleen's link to Craig Ferguson below), I kinda like the whole naughty librarian vibe.


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Mel Allen Sink
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Here's my favorite cartoon about it.
Although it smells a little of elitism. "We're smarter than the Great Unwashed." Then again if the great unwashed are so smart they'd appreciate Science Fiction and Animation more, and not think Family Guy is such "great parody".

OTOH, here's a wonderfully cynical European cartoon about the whole race.

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