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Author Topic: War In The Middle East
Tobias A. Wolf
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quote:
That's right...it's all in their heads....my mistake.
Hey, I didn't say those enemies weren't real, but you don't kill flies with a damn jackhammer. And what bothers me most about what's going on right now, outside of all the killing, is that I believe Israel is destroying itself.

Because Israel isn't just a plot of land, it's an idea. But what are ideas without a belief in them? And with every injustice, either perceived or real, the credibility of that idea crumbles a little more in the hearts and minds of not only Jews outside of Israel, but the rest of the world as well.

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Steve G
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"Flies"....today's bad analogy.

"Destroying itself"?? Ideals are great, but not if you have no country to live in. The Ultra-Orthodox also complained that the state of Israel shouldn't exist in the beginning because God hadn't given it to them, but now they've changed their minds and realized that their ideals weren't as good as actually have a home-state.

It's very unlikely that Jews will give up on Israel anytime in the near future...other than a minority of pseudo-philosophers. I think most Jews are much more grounded in reality than that.

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Greg B
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Wow! Israel and Hezzbolah say that they'll probably agree to the cease fire proposed by the UN.

Israel says it could happen as early as tomorrow. Meanwhile their biggest ground push in their history is going on.

Hezbollah says they'll agree but that they have the right to defend themselves against anyone which means they'll keep the sh1t up and thus cause the cease fire to be invalidated and then POOF, Lebanon becomes Israel South.

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LeftyMcKay
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quote:
But based on the numbers of civilian causalities, and extraordinary infrastructure damage done to Lebanon in comparison to Israel; it appears to this outsider that a major injustice is unfolding.
There's a good chance that anyone who believes they can determine what is an injustice based solely on numbers while ignoring motives and methods probably has a broken moral compass.

I think JATG has it right and I'm glad to see Steve G and I finally agree on something [Smile]

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akinney
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Give up, Tobias - you stand no chance with the eternal wisdom of Steve G. Unless you 100% agree with every death and Israel you are an idiot who should "grow up." There is no other way, according to him, than total destruction of everything in Israel's path and if you are in the way - tough sh**. Israel has permission to do whatever they want and if you disagree you're a mornon. I agree with you but I'm just saying that you won't bask in the warm light of Steve's sunlight - afterall, he has even more wisdom than Ghandi who wasn't "spot on" all the time but Steve G, the wise one, is on 100% of the time. Just reload your guns. [Wink]
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akinney
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There can't be a military solution, it won't last. Only diplomacy can fix it.

"Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars... Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King Jr.

Sorry, Steve, if he's not spot on either - not sure who's spot on in your book, besides you (or other people who only agree with you 100% of the time on 100% of the issues or else "grow up")

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Greg B
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What's this? ( in voice of old Batman tv show announcer )

Israel and Hezzbollah agreeing to sit down to smoke the peace pipe?

Astounding! How the flow of heroin, hashish, and cocaine have come to a standstill in many parts of the world due to this ongoing battle in the Holy Land?

Holy, Holy Land Caped Crusader! Any jarhead who remembers the good ol days of Beirut over 20 years ago can tell you how easy it was to get the best dope in the world delivered to your front door!

Stay tuned! Same Dope time, same dope channel!

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Tobias A. Wolf
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quote:
It's very unlikely that Jews will give up on Israel anytime in the near future...
You are probably right, and I apologize for the bad analogy. But I have a final one for you to endure; erosion doesn't take place overnight, but day by day, grain by grain. You don't see it happening, even when it's occurring right in front of your eyes.

And no, I can't say that my moral compass is correct 100% of the time. Can you? If your answer is yes, then your probably a fanatic on the same plane of moral conviction as a militant Islamic fundamentalist. Only your on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum.

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Steve G
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quote:
you stand no chance with the eternal wisdom of Steve G.
That's the first thing you've said that's made any sense.... [funny]

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LeftyMcKay
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More on Lebanon fauxtography from, surprisingly, The LA Times.

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Steve G
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quote:
It's worth noting in this context that there is no similar flow of propagandistic images coming from the Israeli side of the border. That's because one side — the democratically elected government of Israel — views death as a tragedy and the other — the Iranian financed terrorist organization Hezbollah — sees it as an opportunity. In this case, turning their own dead children into material creates an opportunity to cloud the fact that every Lebanese casualty, tragic as he or she is, was killed or injured as an unavoidable consequence of Israel's pursuit of terrorists who use their own people as human shields. Every Israeli civilian killed or injured was the victim of a terrorist attack intended to harm civilians. That alone ought to wash away any blood-stained suggestion of moral equivalency.

I thought I was done responding to the kids...but this was to on the nose and I wanted to make sure they would see it....


Good article...thanks, Lefty...(I almost choked on those words [Wink] )

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Steve G
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quote:
Report: Christians in Lebanon Used as Human Shields by Hezbollah
Friday, August 11, 2006
By: Christian Solidarity International

Hezbollah is Using Christian Villages to Shield its Military Operations in Violation of International Law

WASHINGTON, August 1, 2006: Hezbollah is using Christian villages to shield its military operations against Israel. Southern Lebanese Christian villages, such as Ain Ebel, Rmeish, Alma Alshaab, and others are being used by Hezbollah terrorists for launching missile attacks.

“Hezbollah is repeating the same pattern that it practiced against Israel in 1996,” says former South Lebanese Army commander, Col. Charbel Barkat. “Hezbollah is hiding among civilian populations and launching attacks behind human shields.”

A Christian from the village of Ain Ebel, who is nameless because he fears retribution by Hezbollah, discovered Hezbollah guerillas were setting up a launcher to fire Katyusha rockets from the rooftop of his home. Ignoring his pleas to stop, they fired the missiles. He immediately gathered his family and fled his home, which indeed was bombed and destroyed 15 minutes later by an Israeli air strike.

In addition to having their homes commandeered for launching Hezbollah’s attacks, there have been attempts to obstruct Christians from fleeing their villages.

On Saturday, July 28, Hezbollah fighters fired upon several Christians fleeing Rmeish with their families, wounding two according to Christian sources in south Lebanon. Hezbollah has been the ruling power in the south since Israel withdrew from Lebanon six years ago. Christian villages suffer from extensive neglect of infrastructure under Hezbollah rule. Even though Christians pay the taxes for basic government services, such as road repair and other utilities, these services are rarely provided. On the other hand, Shiite villages supportive of
Hezbollah do not pay taxes and benefit from infrastructure development and new residential and business construction. Once the majority, the Christian population in Lebanon since the civil war has declined to under 40% due to pressures by Islamic militias supported by Iran and Syria.

“Hezbollah is the issue,” warns Rev. Dr. Keith Roderick, Washington Representative of Christian Solidarity International and secretary general of the Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights. “A misrepresentation of the position of most Lebanese Christians is
underway.” Roderick recently traveled to Lebanon to meet with the leaders of the Cedar Revolution and Lebanese activists. Sami El-Khoury, president of the World Maronite Union, says that reports on Christian support for Hezbollah are misleading. “Contrary to Western
press reports, indicating high percentages of Christian support for Hezbollah, 90% of Christians, 80% of Sunni and 40% of Shiites in Lebanon oppose Hezbollah,”
says El-Khoury.

“The Lebanese government should focus their rage against Hezbollah, not Israel,” notes Tom Harb, secretary general for the International Committee for UN Security Council Resolution 1559 (UNSCR 1559).



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akinney
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This is my last post under this topic, too tired of it to go on with it.

Yeah, Steve - just preachin' to us dumbass kids that don't know anything. I do know something of the cycle of violence and hate - and maybe you do too, I don't know you enough to say otherwise. But I have learned a lot about that cycle in my 29 years. I found my brother dead in the backyard when I was 6 - he was 9. All fingers pointed that it was another kid in the neighborhood that killed him but because his father was the chief of police it was never investigated - just filed away as a freak accident. 10 years later his son, the suspect, was sentenced to life in prison in Florida (I'm from Nebraska) for shooting cab drivers for no reason. In all likelyhood, he murdered my brother. Do I feel hate? Do I feel anger? Sure. I live with that every day - I was the last person to see him alive and for a long time I wished violence on that guy's family. But I've thought long and hard about it. I've thought about what cycle of hate brought that guy to do those things and why I can't continue that cycle of **** myself. Why I won't do that - the buck stops with me. Hezbollah was not just created out of hate it was created out of a reaction to the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon (most people now see it as a TOTALLY unjust invasion - that was told to me first hand from a JEWISH friend of mine). So you see that what we have now is just a result of hate and hate and hate and hate and no matter how you justify your rockets and Hezbolah deaths it will create more pain and more death and more groups and more hate. I value your opinion but it really pisses me off that you have the nerve to act like like I'm a dumb kid who doesn't know a thing - I know a lot about hatred and wanted to avenge a death and I have chosen the path that Ghandi and Martin Luther King, etc... talk about and that is to say that the cycle stops with me and although my vengeance might feel really good in the moment - the evil it creates will only create more evil and continue this crap. But you just insult me for trying to say that there can be another way and that by sympathizing with innocent lives I should "grow up" and that I am a fool. I'm not going to tell you to grow up - you have your opinion and I respect that but you should stop for a second and maybe think that somebody (even at age 29) has a reason for thinking that the cycle of hate creates no long term peace instead of just being a dick and saying they are a child. I loved my brother and he was taken from me by hatred - senseless violence and as much as that might make me feel good to have bloody vengeance, I have to let go and stop that cycle. I guess I just wish you wouldn't treat people like kids who don't know sh** when maybe they do know more than you about personal loss on a hatred level (and maybe I don't, like I said - I don't know you).

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Steve G
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Look, I feel empathy for what you've gone through and it's good you've come to some uneasy peace about it. BUT you are once again comparing apples to oranges. What you've gone through, whether accident or planned plot, was a one time incident that sounds (from what little you've said) to not have been a continuous attack upon your family by this person. Was it unjust that he got away with it? Probably. But other than your feelings concerning forgiveness has nothing at all to do with a country that is under attack and needs to defend itself. You can quote King and Gandhi until your blue in the face and if you decide to forgive whoever you want and not seek vengence that's fine as long as you can sleep at night. Vengence has very little to do with the conflict in Lebanon and Israel. It's about defense (on Israel's side) and hatred (on Hizbollah's side). You seem to be under the bizarre notion Israel wants to destroy all Arab countries instead of live in peace. You've got it backwards.
Instead of trusting your one Jewish friend do some research and read up on what happened. the Isreali invasion in Lebanon
There's an old saying (or joke) that if you get 3 Jews in a room you'll get 4 opinions. Unless your friend is pretty high up in Israel's government (and I supsect you would've mentioned that) or an unbeknownst spokesperson for all Jews that I've never heard of than I'm not sure he can speak for all Jews. My suspicion is that if there were a poll taken about that conflict the average Jew (American and Israeli) would probably disagree with your friend, but maybe that's just the Jews I get it from 'first hand'.
The reason for the 'grow up' comments (which obviously seem to cut awfully deep for you) is not because of your age, but more to do with the immaturity of your comments and arguments. You're actually older chronologically than your posts suggest and I suspect I'm not the only surprised by that. Besides the snide responses that pepper you comments you constantly argue apples and oranges and try to shoehorn specific quotes about entirely different situations to fit this one.
And while we're on the subject I never called you 'dumbass' or anything close to that level of insult and have never suggested that you shouldn't feel empathy towards the innocents killed in this violence. And even though I've received several e-mails pointing out your thinly veiled anti-semitic rants I've never (until now) pointed them out. Or maybe you prefer to beleive in the anti-Israel rhetoric.
quote:
quick, someone make another cartoon that shows the other side of what Israel does - a bulldozer running over a baby carriage or maybe a jet fighter dropping a bomb on baby carriage.

quote:
Maybe when your religious doctrine says you are God's chosen people it is your luxury to see nothing wrong with tipping the scales of justice like that.

quote:
the Jews follow the Old Testement which if you read - is batsh**t crazy
quote:
PS - I do sympathize for the Israeli civilians, I have yet to see, however, that scores of them have been wiped out in a single pass, you can't deny that the massive civilian casualties have been pretty much one side. Note, I said massive. If you have a cut on your hand or a massive head wound that is bleeding out of control, which do you treat first? It seems if you turn on the news the browner corpses get the least screen time.
For someone who appears to abhor violence you've got some strange ideas...
quote:
so the answer to it all: free for all, bomb the f*** out of each other!!! good idea. ...As for the scuffle between the Israeli Army and Hezbollah, I hope they both wipe each other off the map. I don't support either and I'm so tired of hearing about their wonderful, peaceful, chosen religion.

quote:
George Carlin: “why do “we” call Israeli soldiers commandos, and we call Palestinian soldiers terrorists?”
(one of the stupider things Carlin ghas ever said)
BECAUSE Palestenians purposely attack civilians and the Jewish armey doesn't.

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Sketchpad
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Steve, you're going far too overboard. The subject being pointed out here is about disproportionate retribution and the callousness/carelessness of the use of uncontrolled violence for diplomacy.

That's supposed to be thinly veiled anti-semitism? Akinneys anger over uncontrolled violence is anti-semitism? And you suspiciously parse and chop his remarks into evidence when he's only trying to point out the futility of the violence on both sides?

Sheesh. Welcome to Planet Bush. Make yourself at home.

[Gary]

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Steve G
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No, Sketch...I don't think I went too far overboard. Not any further than our akinney did - and probably not nearly as far.
As I said I received several e-mails from fellow members who pointed out his behavior and if he didn't mean anything by it,then, at least, he can modify his 'arguments' so they aren't perceived as such.
I have to disagree that all he was discussing was the fultilty of the viloence. He was being very clear in his condemnation of Israel for because innocent lives were lost. It's not even clear from his arguments that he wouldn't condemn Israel even if no innocents were killed.
Not all violence is futile - unfortunately. It would be a better world if the US hadn't had to violently react to Germany and Japan in WWII, but unfortunately we all know that peaceful negotiation wouldn't have saved the day. Maybe it could work here...maybe not. It hasn't so far.
If he - or anyone else - thinks Israel doesn't regret innocent casualties then they are wrong.

As far Bush - I despise the man and think he's gotten us into a quagmire that we might not be able to get out of, but does that mean he's wrong about everything? No. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. People I despise are sometimes right and people I love are sometimes wrong. That's the way the world is.

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-FP-
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A fellow nooz junkie just sent me a clip featuring George Galloway, which some might find EX-TREEEEEM!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXBBeR0bp9k

I gots no comment.

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Tobias A. Wolf
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Obviously, I'm more aligned with akinney's idea of a solution to the problem than Steve's. And apparently, both sides in this conflict have seen the light of peace, considering the fact that at 9 PM our time, an official cease fire begins. It's over, for now. akinney wins! [Wink]

Ahem, well we know it isn't that simple, but hey, a victory for peace isn't exactly a small thing. And it doesn't appear that anyone has mentioned the official announcement in the discussion, so I thought I'd throw it in here. Let's just hope it holds.

Also, it was interesting to read how you have arrived at your view of the conflict akinney. So I'd like to offer my own.

My last name is Wolf because I'm of German Jewish descent. My fathers family moved from Germany to Ohio in the 1800's, as the Ohio river valley was the largest destination of Jewish immigration outside of the New England states in the 1800s. They were reformist Jews, and this little bit taken from wikipedia will explain a few things about the movement:

quote:
In the 1800s and very early 1900s, Reform Judaism rejected the idea that Jews would re-create a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland. They rejected the idea that there would ever be a personal messiah, and that the Temple in Jerusalem would ever be rebuilt, or that one day animal sacrifices would be re-established in a rebuilt Temple, in accord with the Hebrew Bible.
Reform Judaism rejected the classical rabbinic teaching that the Jews were in exile ("galut"). For reformers, dispersion of Jews among the nations was a necessary experience in the realization and execution of its Messianic duty. Instead, the people Israel was viewed as the Messianic people, appointed to spread by its fortitude and loyalty the monotheistic truth over all the earth, to be an example of rectitude to all others. For reform Jews, all forms of Jewish law and custom were seen as bound up with the national political conception of Israel's destiny, and thus they are dispensable.

Reform Jews ceased to declare Jews to be in exile; for the modern Jew in America, England, France, Germany, or Italy has no cause to feel that the country in which he lives is for him a strange land. Many Reform Jews went so far as to agree that prayers for the resumption of a Jewish homeland were incompatible with desiring to be a citizen of a nation. Thus, the Reformers implied that for a German, Frenchman, or American Jew to pray from the original siddur was tantamount to dual loyalty, if not outright treason. In the U.S., Reform intellectuals argued that their commitment to the principles of equal rights and the separation of religion and state precluded them from supporting Zionism. In a Jewish state, they contended, the Arabs would be second-class citizens and Judaism would be the official religion.

Since the Holocaust and the establishment of the modern State of Israel, Reform Judaism has largely repudiated Anti-Zionism, though the American Council for Judaism continues to support integration and oppose Jewish nationalism. Some Reform Jews who are not affiliated with the American Council for Judaism may hold anti-Zionist ideas privately, but the official platform of Reform Judaism is now Zionist.

Count me into that last sentence, exclude the private part, and you have some idea about my stand on Israel and some of it's policies as shaped by my background. Which makes me wonder, how you Steve, have arrived at your views.
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Sketchpad
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WWII??? we're getting off the subject a bit, aren't we? [nono]

Steve, George W. Bush is the man currently involved with our world and (very much involved) with the decisions going on in the Israel/Lebanon Crises. This is the mess we're dealing with now and not the history lessons of WWII.

The argument has been heated between you two, but I don't see where or why the anti-semtism claims should be made here.

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akinney
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I'm not going to say anything about the middle east stuff because I am bowing out of that like I said.

I am going to address steve's libel. I am not anti-semetic or racist. I have no problem with jews - have several Jewish friends, even one who is is on her way to being a Rabbi and I went to her wedding last year. They're great people. I'm not racist either - my younger brother and sister are black and I love them to death. I don't care about race. I'm not a big fan of religion but that doesn't make me hateful - I just don't agree with a lot of the things done in the name of religion. I also don't support most of what Israel does - Israel is a country not a faith. I don't care about their faith - I don't like Iran either but that doesn't mean I hate Islam. It is possible to not support Israel and not be anti-semetic - please check out these sites (created BY Jews): http://www.jatonyc.org, http://www.ifamericansknew.org).

Anyway, I don't appreciate taking pieces of my comments (where I say I don't support much Christianity,etc...) out of context or without supporting thoughts to make me out to be something I am not. You should be really careful about libel steve.

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The Mod
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Going to put this topic on hold for bit till tempers cool. I will remind you all that line by line responses are not tolerated here, please refrain from doing such, as tempting as it may be, when making your point.
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The Mod
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Ok, in response to the multitude of emails regarding this thread, here is what I have to say on the matter regarding Akinney and Steve G.

Akinney - I don't believe you are an anti-Semite, racists, hater, etc. ( I don’t think anyone here does) From what I can tell, Steve did not actually call you an anti-Semite, but referred to emails he'd received that intimating that they were borderline comments. This was probably not a good decision on his part during the heat of the moment.

Steve G - You already know not post multiple quotes, so that’s all I’ll say on that matter. On the other hand, I can see where you took quite a few of the quotes out of context. Please use more of the text when quoting (and singularly per post) when you use them in your discussions.

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Charles
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Well, we made it five pages and 181 comments into a very emotional subject before it got personal. That's the mark of a solid editorial community. Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts, feelings, info and insights.

I have the advantage of having known Mr. Kinney for several years. He's a fixture at AN's annual 4.1ers. He's a good man, as good as anyone could ever hope to meet. His objections to the conflict are absolutely justified. Abe's abhorance to innocent people being killed is something I strongly share and I'm sure that everyone else who's participating on this thread feels the same way about it.

The remarks towards akinney are out of line.

That said, I'm going to re-open the thread because I trust our community.

Thanks again for your thoughts and thoughtfulness.

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Ganklin
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quote:
"This is the mess we're dealing with now and not the history lessons of WWII"
oh, sketchpad, i highly disagree. everything we are living with today, especially in the Middle East, has been a direct effect from WWII...including our issues with north korea.

those who don't know history are doomed to repeat its mistakes or however that saying goes.

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Greg B
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Thanks Charles.

These past five weeks have been a nightmare for millions of people around the world.

We're seeing more of how stupid our politicians are.

Now with this supposed 'cease fire' we've got these morons arguing about who won and who lost!

Never mind the millions displaced and the dead and mutilated chilren. Oh no, that wasn't of importance, just what will the history books and bookies say.

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Sketchpad
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Ganklin you're right, and that old saying about "those who don't know history..." did cross my mind before I wrote my response. But what I am pointing out specifically is that the leaders we have today, that are in charge now, are not the leaders that were in WWII.

The stage may be the same, but the players are not the same at all!

Btw Steve G, my apologies for jumping in on you like that. I guess I was also upset.

However, I did not have any plans or ideas for a libel or anything like that. [Looks up thinking for a moment and rubs chin.] ...But I could still maybe change my mind someday and follow through on that if you end up leaning more often to Thomas' political views rather than my own . [Big Grin] [Wink]

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eboles
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I think the problem is that it's a different kind of war than WW1 and WW2, and it's not clear as to how it should be fought. In those wars there was a huge arms build up on both sides. Nowadays, well who can seriously compete with the arsenal of the US or Israel. Any traditional war would be one-sided. Like it or not, the only violant means of opposition is terrorism.

Seems to be a lot of disagreement as to how you go about stopping terrorism though.

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Tobias A. Wolf
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quote:
As an ethnic, but non observant Jew, I despise the fact that having a rational un-heated discussion about the state of Israel is nearly next to impossible in the U.S by and large. Israel is a state just like any other in the end. And criticisms of it's policies and history should be open for debate without the conversation degrading into anti-Semitism accusations. Not that this discussion is there, but somehow, it always ends up there. So just that I don't have to do this later, I'd like to insert a preemptive eyeroll:
[Roll Eyes]

I posted that in the first page of this thread, and somehow I thought it would last. Boy was I wrong. Considering the fact that I included myself into the conversation on policy, I should have reposted that as a signature for good measure in every response I've given here. But, I thought we were better than that.

And I don't think Steve and akinney are really that far from each other on ideas about peace, nor am I from them. Conduct about how to get there was the quarrel. And in the end, on this day, that fight is irrelevant. Thank god.

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Greg B
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Gad, I'm turning into 'American Dad'...

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Greg B
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Pri-ma-tologyyyyy

da du da du da du du dudududu

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Charles
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The Hezzies fought a vanity war. This wasn't a fight that Israel wanted. They left Lebanon, they don't want to be in Lebanon. Hezbollah is just as much to blame for the civilians deaths in Lebanon as the IDF. Even more. What was gained from this? Nothing. Death and destruction and for what. Dead body footage for Al Jazeera.

The biggest loser in this stupid conflict is the peace process.

This isn't the end of the fight I'm afraid.

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OFFBEAT
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

..relax, it's a parody. But it's scary how quickly he got support from the crowd.

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Jasen
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Check this out-
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Iran Focus

Tehran, Iran, Jul. 23 – The following is the translation of the text of an advertisement that appears regularly in the hard-line weekly Parto Sokhan as part of a recruitment drive for suicide operation volunteers.

English translation below:


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In the Name of God, the Most High


“Martyrdom-seeking operations embody the pinnacle of a nation’s greatness and the apex of its epics”

His Eminence the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei


Statement for Recruitment of Martyrdom-seeking Forces


In order to achieve all-round readiness against the enemies of Islam and the sacred Islamic Republic and to protect the foundations of Islam, the Lovers of Martyrdom Garrison plans to organise “a martyrdom-seeking division” for each province in the country from the martyrdom-seeking and brave popular forces of that province and give them specific and specialised training. We therefore request all our pious brothers and sisters, who are committed and determined to defend Islam, if willing, to submit two photographs of themselves, a copy of their identity cards, and the filled-in application form below to the following address, so that preparations for their organisation and training could begin:


P.O. BOX 16535-664, Tehran


It should be noted that for the forces of the martyrdom-seeking division from each province, the training and preparations for martyrdom-seeking operations will be implemented in that province.


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Membership request application


I, ……………, son/daughter of ………… ID number………… Date of Birth …………
Address: …………………………………………… Telephone: ……………………
Request membership in the Martyrdom-seeking Division in the province of …………..

Signature: ……………


Found here

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OFFBEAT
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That blank form at the bottom cracks me up.

"Hey Kids! ..Can you Draw me?"
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If not, then you may qualify for a Martyrdom Mission!! Just fill out this form and send in two box-tops off of coo-coo nuts cereal.. [funny]

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Charles
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Here's Iran's revenge for the Mohamed cartoons.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8243

Iran unveils Holocaust cartoon exhibit
Mon. 14 Aug 2006
Associated Press

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — An exhibition of more than 200 cartoons about the Holocaust opened Monday as Iran's response to last year's Muslim outrage over a caricature of the Prophet Muhammad in a Danish newspaper.

The display, showing 204 entries from Iran and abroad, was strongly influenced by the views of Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who drew widespread condemnation last year for calling the Holocaust a "myth" and saying Israel should be destroyed.

One cartoon by Indonesian Tony Thomdean shows the Statue of Liberty holding a book on the Holocaust in its left hand and giving a Nazi-style salute with the other.

Masoud Shojai, director of the host Caricature House, said a jury looked through 1,200 entries received after the contest was announced in February by the co-sponsor, the Iranian newspaper Hamshahri.

It came following worldwide protests by Muslims against the Muhammad cartoon published by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. Many Muslims considered the cartoon offensive and a violation of traditions prohibiting images of their prophet.

Hamshahri said it wanted to test the West's tolerance for drawings about the Nazi killing of 6 million Jews in World War II. The entries on display came from nations including United States, Indonesia and Turkey.

About 50 people attended the exhibition's opening.

"I came to learn more about the roots of the Holocaust and the basis of Israel's emergence," said 23-year-old Zahra Amoli.

The exhibition runs until Sept. 13 and the winner will receive US$12,000. The exhibition hall is next to the Palestinian Authority's embassy, which was Israel's diplomatic site in Iran before the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

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Charles
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Aftermath...

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/nation/15284762.htm?source=rss&channel=ohio_nation


Excerpts...


Hezbollah's backers, Iran and Syria, both declared victory over Israel on Tuesday.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in a nationally televised speech that Hezbollah has ``hoisted the banner of victory'' over Israel and thwarted U.S. plans to create a new Middle East dominated by ``the United States, Britain and Zionists,'' who should ``compensate Lebanon for the damage.''


Displaced Lebanese flooded back into bombed-out villages Tuesday, getting a sobering look at what more than a month of war wrought.

``No victory in this war can replace the agony that we have seen,'' said Tami Mahanah, 74, a frail man who hiked more than two miles to his destroyed home.

``Destruction,'' he said amid a landscape littered with the rotting bodies of dead livestock. ``I only see destruction. I don't believe that victory is worth this destruction.''


Hezbollah officials, emerging from hiding, stridently denounced talk of disarmament while Israeli troops remained in the country and while bodies remained buried under crushed buildings in neighborhoods devastated by war.

``Today we pulled out children from under the rubble,'' said Hassan Fadlallah, a member of the Hezbollah parliamentary bloc from the southern town of Ainata. ``Disarmament is not on the table even. It's outside of the discussion.''

Some accused Hezbollah general secretary Sheik Hassan Nasrallah of defying Lebanese sovereignty and a longstanding U.N. resolution calling for the disbanding of militias.

``We were discussing this issue before the war,'' said Walid Jumblatt, a leader of Lebanon's Druse sect known for his pro-U.S. political sentiments. ``We were trying to find a formula where his army or his militia would be incorporated into the Lebanese army. Even at that time, he was quite clear that he would not abide.''

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Greg B
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I remember Walid Jumblatt from the old days. He's really tried to get peace but even he doesn't see what we're all up against.

When you have the mechanics of the unconcious mind in action there is no reasoning. This time when Hezzbullah steps up stupid again the entire country will be obliterated. Make no mistake, Hezz will try again.

When they do, they'll need God to get them out of what's in store for them next.

Charles, I'm glad you came around to seeing the truth. Sometimes there are no other recourses but kickin' mucho culo with both feet and no clipped toenails.

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Charles
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Please don't spin my opinions or position here, Greg. Not very sporting ol' chap as I've expressed myself clearly throughout this conflict and way before.

I do indeed believe in fighting back and fighting back hard when there's no other course of action left to pursue. I still maintain that all parties bear their appropriate share of the responsibility for the death and destruction in this latest war with the blame scale tipped heavily towards the Hezzies and their international supporters.

I feel sorry for Iran. They're going to push it and push it and push it to the point where their country just might wind up as a memory someday if they keep this crazy ass stuff up.

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Greg B
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Charles, I had no intention of spinning you.

Bottom line is this terrorisim and sabre rattling is screwing up daily operations on this planet. In the Lebanon case, the flow of dope got screwed up due to the war. That meant the fighting had to stop quick and even Israel's influence can't stand in the way of the drug trade.

We're looking at the start of what I call 'The Klaatu Initiative'. That's based on the classic sci-fi flick 'The Day The Earth Stood Still'. What's going to happen is that any upstart countries from this day forward are going to have their point of regress but if it extends in the wrong way they'll be given a choice by the other powers like the U.S., China, UK, Russia to knock it off or get blasted.

The terrorists are too embedded in the civilian population. They're bullies but extremely well equipped bullies. The common folk can't fight them off like my ancestors did during the Revolutionary War or during the various uprisings of the 1800s. The weapons nowadays are far too powerful.

The balance of terror is in the favor of the gangsters and it's gotten way out of hand. Hesitation on our part could result in something as disastrous as radioactive materials being released in our environment and causing damage of unimaginable proportions. Hence, any bs'ing around from now on, no matter where it raises it's head could well spell doom for the perpetrators, supporters and unfortunately the innocents about.

It's terrible that our own irresponsibility or inadequacies as a species has come to this but not coming up with or impeding or whatever it is we were supposed to do with our behavioral technologies has come to the high tech/low brow ratio. The primative we can be not outdistancing his primordial impulses in ratio to his technological advances.

Ape has killed Ape!

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Greg B
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Well with all that said, this excellent video wraps up my viewpoints on this subject:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-b8HbaS-SN0&mode=related&search=

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