AnimationNation Forum

AnimationNation
Topic Closed  Topic Closed


Post New Topic  
Topic Closed  Topic Closed
my profile login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» AnimationNation   » SideTopics   » Penis club?

   
Author Topic: Penis club?
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I was talking to a female artist from Nelvana the other day who was really glad to hear that my husband and I are setting up a production company.

According to this woman, who has been an artist for over 15 years in animation, the business is "a penis club". She is weary of being tossed about- her rights abused by people with little consideration for her wellbeing. She was a pretty friendly, talented lady from what I could see. And a cool one too!

What do other people here think? Is there any room for women in this business who aren't hard line feminists? Personally, I consider myself to be kind of in the middle- a pretty cool person; a humanist. But I am not going to take *hit from anyone either. My partner, while very masculine, is respectful of women. He does not get into "cliques" or smarmy, backstabbing behavior. If someone crosses him, he'll take the time to talk it through before he goes on the offensive. And even then, he's a very forgiving man. He's honest and responsible- which is why instead of drawing for a living, he elected to make sacrifice and get out of the business for a few years so our family could find financial and environmantal stability. That's dedication and responsibility for you.

Is there room here for people like my partner and I, who have sacrificed a decade of their lives to designing proprietary children's material in our spare time out of genuine love for children? Or is this really exclusively a business for back stabbing, paranoid, egotistical, pushy, conspiratorial *ssholes? I'd really like to know! [Big Grin]

IP: Logged
-FP-
IE # 13
Member # 914

Icon 2 posted      Profile for -FP-   Author's Homepage   Email -FP-         Edit/Delete Post 
Rule 1: Never talk about Penis Club.
IP: Logged
Doodles
Member
Member # 565

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Doodles   Email Doodles         Edit/Delete Post 
It's not so much the need to be "feminist" as it is being "management," which usually requires being "a jerk."

The role of women in business has improved dramatically from what it was even 20 years ago, and it certainly has a long way to go. But if one expects to talk about business success, then one has to face the fact that such requires women have to be just as ruthless as men when it comes to the boardrooms and staff meetings. No schveen needed, just huevos.

Unfortunately, there seems to be little room for humanists in the corporate world, no matter what gender.

IP: Logged
Mindfulwhim
IE # 207
Member # 3153

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mindfulwhim   Author's Homepage   Email Mindfulwhim         Edit/Delete Post 
Personaly, I never have problems with women in the industry, but I usually have problems with people who haver problems with power, or should I say, "powerlessness".

Victimhood is a self perpetuating and debilitating mindset, a self-fulfilling prophecy. You see what you want to see.

Step off of the soap box, and consider sitting at your desk and make art {happen}.

Everyone will benefit from a [more] productive approach. I promise.

IP: Logged
Ravenshoe
IE # 186
Member # 783

Icon 14 posted      Profile for Ravenshoe           Edit/Delete Post 
My wife (with a background in fine arts - as a painter) worked her way up the corporate ladder to VP in a multinational Fortune 500 company.

I've never heard her once complain about a glass ceiling, penis club or whatever. She did it through hard work, brain power and a great sense of humor.

Of course, it IS easier to sit back and complain that the cards are stacked against you - so why try.

IP: Logged
SerafinsGirl
Member
Member # 2546

Icon 1 posted      Profile for SerafinsGirl   Email SerafinsGirl         Edit/Delete Post 
Mindful, excellent comment about "victimhood"...in fact I am putting out a book of my work this summer and I am going to be talking about that very thing..the whole artist's victim mentality.


"Is this really exclusively a business for back stabbing, paranoid, egotistical, pushy, conspiratorial *ssholes? I'd really like to know!"

There's a few of those in whatever business you're in, not just animation. The *world* has it's share of them.
I'm a woman whose been in animation for 15 years and personally, and maybe because it's a numbers game, I've seen *far* more men get burned..and burned badly. Awful injustices happen to *both* sexes. I've seen men fired and replaced by cheaper labor, their pensions suddenly taken away from them and I've heard of a few who took their own lives after being unemployed for too long.
Personally I do not, and have never, seen the animation as a penis club...numbers wise maybe, but a huge amount of the training, encouragement, job offers and support I've gotten over the years has been from men. I could safely say that everything I know I learned from good, professional men who enjoy nurturing talent.
I've left studios that were no longer working for me. I'd prefer that route than to make broad generalizations about men (or people in general) in the biz. [Big Grin]

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Soapboxes come in many shapes and sizes. But someone with his own kid could unserstand that homeschooling requires a certain amount of energy- not leaving much time for luxuries like drawing.

This is the only access I have to information and contacts I need to reach my goals, and I am here representing my husband because if it weren't for him, I'd have been a fine artist- not a graphic designer. He taught me how to laugh- at myself and the world around me.

IP: Logged
RedDiabla
IE # 10
Member # 1007

Icon 2 posted      Profile for RedDiabla   Email RedDiabla         Edit/Delete Post 
Mindful: very good advice you give! [thumbsup]

Capt: frankly you seem to have a very particular axe to grind about the alleged sexism that you think is sooo rampant, based on what's posted on an internet board.

Methinks if you took the chip off your shoulder and just did your work stuff, you'd be a LOT happier and less paranoid.

RD

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
See- Feminists use words like "victimhood". My mother-in-law is a "feminist". She has all the management books ever printed since the '80s. 200 pairs of uncomfortable shoes.

I own four or five high quality pairs of comfortable shoes, and I understand that victims have rights too. I am an humanist.

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
ReD,

You need to grow up and stop speaking for people you know nothing about. Pop out a couple of kids, rock 'em at your feet while you create- stay up all night when they're sick. And call me in the morning.

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
When all the kids had gang fights outside during school, I'd stay upstairs with my favorite teacher, learning crochet. My partner got the *hit kicked out of him several times for defending a retarded boy these bullies were picking on.

Does that make us victims? Or humanists.

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I forgot to mention- I have two Mothers-in-law. The second one was a schoolteacher for some time. She is also a feminist. The rest of us are terrified of food poisoning. It's a serious issue. You could make a bomb out of the chemical bath extracted from the contents of her fridge. You could feed a family of twenty with all the food she tosses out. My husband's health is steadily improving since we married. My husband's father has had cancer twice in five years. He blames it on his son. He never did that before he married her.

Feminism is as guilty of "destruction" as the mentality that fostered it. I am tired of being labeled "victim". Tired of being labeled "destructive". For loving life and all it was meant to bring me as woman and a mother.

IP: Logged
Mindfulwhim
IE # 207
Member # 3153

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mindfulwhim   Author's Homepage   Email Mindfulwhim         Edit/Delete Post 
yes, sure, I have custody of my 3 year old son, but I won't let that stop me from making art and contributing positively to the world. The words "can't draw" are not evven in my vocabulary.

And, the last time I checked, the term "human" refers to both sexes [genders], so a true humanist one would necessarily value both.

Please stop this behavior Wow. You might well be negatively affecting the community and especially those young people who are looking for advice from wise people.

Please consider what the term "wise" means, before posting.

IP: Logged
OFFBEAT
IE # 39
Member # 873

Icon 1 posted      Profile for OFFBEAT   Author's Homepage   Email OFFBEAT         Edit/Delete Post 
If you gals can figure out a way to get more female artist working in the business.. you have my full support!
As a man, I would much rather look at female co-workers over guys.

Thanks Toots!
[Wink]

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Mindfulwhim, surely you give our readers more credit than that?
IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Offbeat, less time on the avater and more time on the introspection.
IP: Logged
Vincent
Member
Member # 2369

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Vincent   Email Vincent         Edit/Delete Post 
A sense of humour can be a wonderous thing.
IP: Logged
the Moderator
Administrator
Member # 5

Icon 1 posted      Profile for the Moderator   Email the Moderator         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes indeed, Vincent. Thank you.

--------------------
-the Moderator
-Brian Reynolds

 -

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah. Loved ones with cancer- Har-de-har!

There's a time and place for everything.

IP: Logged
Mindfulwhim
IE # 207
Member # 3153

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mindfulwhim   Author's Homepage   Email Mindfulwhim         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Homeschooling requires a certain amount of energy- not leaving much time for luxuries like drawing.
But plenty of time for arguing [mindlessly] on the internet?

Quite curious indeed!

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Let me know when you get tired, man. I mean it.
IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 12 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I sure have been for a couple of years now.
IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
I don't mind debating when need be. But all these personal attacks are pointless. It's a bunch of people against one person who's just trying to mind their own business and live their life the way they see need.

Besides, my eyes are pretty sore. I have to wait till our insurance kicks in before I can have them checked. Part of the problem with changing jobs so often on such low salary- you spend a lot of time without extended healthcare.

IP: Logged
Kevin
IE # 44
Member # 26

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kevin   Author's Homepage   Email Kevin         Edit/Delete Post 
So help me understand -- you've committed to forming an animation production company, and yet you're unclear if the animation business is really a "penis club" and is "really exclusively a business for back stabbing, paranoid, egotistical, pushy, conspiratorial *ssholes?"

Perhaps a little homework (in the real world, not on a bulletin board) is in order? I've never formed a production company, but I know from those who have that it's an extremely difficult proposition. Those I know who are doing it or have tried are all talented, experienced in the industry, well connected, and thick skinned. Even with those attributes, it's one of the toughest ways to make a living I can imagine.

If on top of the intrinsic difficulties of forming a production company, you're also looking for sexism and nastiness in those around you, I think you're going to have a very hard time.

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
You've managed to address all the issues of my original post whilst overlooking the key issue:

I am not being left in peace on this board and I have every right to be here. If you ask me, it takes a real thick skin to put up with all this crap- and you elected to be here adding to it.

IP: Logged
Trondheimfan
IE # 169
Member # 2282

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Trondheimfan   Email Trondheimfan         Edit/Delete Post 
This thread makes me [funny] , and then [bawling] whilst [Gary] . Now I'm getting [handball]
Capt. Wow, you need [help] , or a big [flirt] .
Before I [abducted] , I say this: Can't we all just [cheers] ?

--------------------
Tekenen is schrijven en spreken tegelijk.

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Dude, I need a good, experienced producer to help us out so my partner can get on with it and do his stuff- and a nice vacation in the country- and hopefully _not_ a pair of prescription glasses.

But I'll take the help and the kiss. Thanks.

IP: Logged
Kevin
IE # 44
Member # 26

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kevin   Author's Homepage   Email Kevin         Edit/Delete Post 
I assume that last post was aimed at my response. If so, I'm scratching my head. Look, you came here and asked an extremely provacative question. If you want to call my sincere response "crap" and take it as an attack on you, then I just have to further wonder where you're coming from. You ask an inflamatory question, and then say you want to be left in peace? Okay. Good luck with your company.
IP: Logged
OFFBEAT
IE # 39
Member # 873

Icon 1 posted      Profile for OFFBEAT   Author's Homepage   Email OFFBEAT         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Offbeat, less time on the avater and more time on the introspection.
Oh ho! so you're descriminating me because of my mono-vision. Just because I don't have 20/20 vision doesn't mean I can't see clearly!!
When will people STOP the hatred?

I am convinced that Disney didn't hire me because of my mono-vision. They saw me drop off my portfolio and they said to themselves.. "something's wrong with that guy.. his glasses magnify one eye.. but shrinks the other... we can't have someone like that working here."

I'm joking of course. Disney didn't hire me because i'm not gay.

Kidding again!

Like I was in my earlier post.

[Wink] <--- this Graemlin indicated that I was joking with 'toots' being the punchline.

I still think its funny.

I don't think people are being denied jobs in animation because of their gender. I just think there aren't that many women interested in doing what we do.

...like Lumberjacking. [Wink]

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
No Kevin, it wasn't my issue I was addressing. It was an issue that effects us all- much like the issues you must deal with as a union leader every single day. Hopefully, we want the same things.
IP: Logged
Ravenshoe
IE # 186
Member # 783

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ravenshoe           Edit/Delete Post 
Again, I have to say that it feels SO GOOD to not be the biggest lunatic around here. I feel absolutely... NORMAL and well adjusted!

Puppies and unicorns to all! [flirt]

IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Just because I have chopped wood- doesn't mean I am your "toots". I am someone else's "toots", thank-you.
IP: Logged
Capt. Wow
IE # 208
Member # 3145

Icon 10 posted      Profile for Capt. Wow   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Ravenshoe, I am warning you- I'll post it...
IP: Logged
OFFBEAT
IE # 39
Member # 873

Icon 1 posted      Profile for OFFBEAT   Author's Homepage   Email OFFBEAT         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm suing this Thread for false advertisement. I wanted to join a Penis Club.
[Frown]

IP: Logged
Mindfulwhim
IE # 207
Member # 3153

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mindfulwhim   Author's Homepage   Email Mindfulwhim         Edit/Delete Post 
I think I would name this company "Penis Club Animation" just so there is no misunderstanding about how you feel about the animation business.

But don't look for my resume anytime soon, or likely, any of the resumes of people on this site.

You have done this to yourself Wow. Many folks have tried to be nice and offer advise and counseling (although it is certainly not part of our duty on this site), including the women, but I think everyone has finally given up.

I think that you are going to increasingly find yourself as a target, because you have painted a target on yourself.

Ready, aim...

IP: Logged
Mindfulwhim
IE # 207
Member # 3153

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mindfulwhim   Author's Homepage   Email Mindfulwhim         Edit/Delete Post 
Yaks on Zoloft
IP: Logged
the Moderator
Administrator
Member # 5

Icon 1 posted      Profile for the Moderator   Email the Moderator         Edit/Delete Post 
I call a moratorium on this thread so that hopefully history won't repeat itself.

--------------------
-the Moderator
-Brian Reynolds

 -

IP: Logged


 
Post New Topic  
Topic Closed  Topic Closed
Open Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Animation Nation

Animation Nation © 1999-2012

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0