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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » Here it is - THE NEW ANIMATION NATION (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Here it is - THE NEW ANIMATION NATION
SNAKEBITE
IE # 101
Member # 17

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well, the green was me. probably on my mind or sumtin.I was kinda going militant for a bit. thats how I think we were all kinda feeling. but like everything else, the color and mood will change.
keeps it interesting. I'm already working on new skins.

We like the idea of rotating skins. what do you guys think?

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contact@animationnation.com
www.artbysnakebite.com
www.myspace.com/mrbite
www.redskystudio.com
www.myspace.com/redskystudio

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Charles
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The colors will change, the textures will change, all of that will be rotating as well in one form or another. I'm thinking once a month we have a new feel to the homepage. This is Snakebite's introductory art and design for the homepage that's up there now. All of that will be an ongoing creative diversification that will keep the site fresh and lively as time goes on.

Also, the main banner at the top, think of it as a movie screen. Yes, that's right, we can use that space to feature video as if you'd be in a movie theater. We could do it tomorrow if we wanted to.

There'll be new content coming to the homepage every day. From topics of interest that our members post which we can funnel to the homepage with links to that topic, news that's brought to our attention from the forums as well as news sources from other sites.

We'll be featuring direct links to sites that are essential to the foundational strength of our industry, such as the Animation Guild, ASIFA-Hollywood, and AWN's School Database and we'll be doing it for free as a professional courtesy and as our way of saying thanks for all that these groups and organizations do to make the industry stronger.

We'll be adding videos on a regular ongoing basis and filling up each category, then archiving the content to add new video content as it comes in. We'll be able to feature an expansive video libary that will be available to all.

There's a very broad horizon that we can keep working towards with the new AN. This is an outstanding leap forward for our community and for the animation community worldwide. We can be everything we've ever imagined the site to be. We have the utility to do this now.

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oogieboogie
IE # 265
Member # 2706

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"The ad space coming soon is just that. Ad space that's coming soon."

Exactly. Who wants to look at a page full of ads? Pimping out the area just to make money isn't a great idea, imo.

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Charles
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Well that's your opinion then. Jeez. Everything else that's been discussed goes right over your head. We can't stay poor for ever, and I can't have people working on this for free. We have to generate revenue to build out the site and expand our services to the industry and community, so get over it fellas.

The advertising we're offering to our long time members is free to start with. We're inviting long time ANers to submit banners which we will post as ads on AN's homepage for free. We don't know how long we'll be able to do this, it won't be forever, but it will be a start and if long time members didn't troll here we'd be happy to offer it to you as well.

We're looking at it this way - we can have a few banner spaces available that we charge more for, or lots of them that we can charge less for. We want the ad space to be as affordable as we can get it for parties who are interested in advertising on the homepage and getting traffic to come to their site.

Consider a magazine like Animation Magazine, or any magazine or newspaper publication. If people can live with ads in a magazine, there's nothing wrong with doing the same thing here. It's common sense.

Plus, and once again, this format is flexible. You're seeing the ad space as visually dominant because there's no content yet in all the free spaces we have available that's set up to drive traffic to other destinations at no charge.

Free yourselves from your old attitudes and from that old troll behavior on the forums. This is such an incredibley positive thing, and some of you guys have nothing to contribute but stale, predictable complaints.

This is what AN was originally intended to be. It was never intended to be just a message board. I've been saying it for years and years. Why not step up to this new level, get a link to your site on your account here and come out into the light, people.

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Charles
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Aside from selling signature banner space to our members on their accounts at $15 a year, which almost nobody's paying for anyway nowadays, I've been letting it slide for a long time as courtesy to members who've supported AN through the concept of the Independent Economy, there has to be a way for us to generate income.

There will be no advertising on the forum pages. This place as it has been for 10 years will still be ad free aside from member signature links and banners.

ASIFA charges dues, the Guild charges dues, entities all charge fees and dues to stay functioning and are always looking to raise more funds. Why not sell Internet ad space on the site, that could double or triple or quadruple the number of visitors you get coming to your own site. No need to charge member fees, no need to kick you out of the group if you fall behind on those fees, get revenue from ads. A really novel idea.

Nobody complains when ASIFA is trying to drum up money, but we offer ad space on AN after years of requests to have ad space, and here come the trolls to complain about it.

I'm very confident that the community and the world at large doesn't have a problem with that aspect of the site. I guarantee you also folks that the ad space we do sell will enhance your experience when you're on the site.

The ad system is something that we have to develop yet, so please be patient with us while we progress towards it. It's the open, free spaces we'll be building out first, then we'll develop our advertising system.

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SNAKEBITE
IE # 101
Member # 17

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and the ads ARE content! these ads send an audience to you. you're the content. well, some people are, others are just contempt,lol.

and look at it this way, if we do land a big AD with a big company, all we're doing is putting those resources back into AN, which means more resources to promote you. We're establishing ourselves as new media. and you don't have to sell your soul to be apart of it.

also, those modules are not just ad banners. notice the extra space! these will be areas for our members to participate and showcase their knowledge and experience. HEY, its more content and it belongs to YOU, its an extension of promoting said artists.

AN has a strong Brand and its positioned itself for future media and the basis of this new media could be you.

We all have to live and if you want us to apologize for that well you're gonna be disappointed. Our intent is to always be competitive with what the status quo is offering, which is less and less each day. We want to encourage members to participate in using the AN brand to get their name out there, but if you're only gonna focus on one aspect of the big picture chances are you won't be participating much and thats ok.

and participating means more than complaining. either you're part of the problem or part of the solution.

After all AN bruthas and sistas, promotion doesn't stop with a banner. When you participate you're promoting you. If you want to be cynical about how we profit off it only, then continue doing what you're doing, cuz you know what you'll have better luck cuz everyone else are such humanitarians they'll take care of you wanting nothing in return, right???lol.

But if you see that when AN profits we give it back to our community ten fold then AN is the place for you.

I think AN has shown ten years of good faith in the community, letting people use its platform for whatever they want, asking very little in return and what its does ask many are incapable of supplying...even when people unable to or unwilling to or forget to pay a small amount annually, AN has left their accounts open.

I personally don't get it and I'm gonna do my best to remind people that participation is key.

We are just people behind the screen after all. And whatever your personal beef is with people prospering its probably an extension of how you've been treated in the past and never learned an alternative...so learn to get over it. AN can help you.

Let go of old perceptions, look at the big picture AN is offering.

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contact@animationnation.com
www.artbysnakebite.com
www.myspace.com/mrbite
www.redskystudio.com
www.myspace.com/redskystudio

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Greg B
IE # 118
Member # 886

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Charles there's so much fun and opportunity for AN it ain't even funny. It's gotta be collective though and people have to contribute.

Getting attention is half the battle of being successful. Fame is the game, but working capital is the reward. Nothin' evil about money, just what some folks will stoop to to get it and control it.

Let's say 20 of us contributed a kick butt piece of art. Pencil, inks, any medium following a common them like "Hans Christian Anderson" art. We all pick characters from his works and do it up. I mean draw and paint like it was our last work. Compiled for print, even POD it would be an easy access product. Just easily format it to print, sell it online.

Lots of opportunities and interviewing those people who did buck the system like Mr. Max Baer Jr. known mostly as "Jethro" on the classic "Beverly Hillbillies" tv show. Mr. Baer on several occasious single handedly beat the Hollywood system with his independent movies in the '70s and whupped the tar off of ABC in a lawsuit when they tried to beat him down back in the '80's. I'd bet he's got stories to tell about how to forge ahead against big odds.

Just think of the SEO ( search engine optimization ) of having video and text interviews of the folks out here. Even asking people like Sheriff Baca about his favorite toons and the importance of education. Every little bit helps with education and reference.

This ecoomic crunch has people on their toes. They have to think on their feet and I'm seeing changes in relationships like I've never seen before. I've literally got an email box full of people I've not heard from since high school 30+ years ago. I've got college and high school and occupation people huntin' me down like crazy. Folks have lost tons of money and securit and many have to start all over. Teaming up and sharing is the only way to survive. Buryin' the hatchet, forgiveness is a-spreadin' like a range fire.

I've spent literally 7 hours answering emails and links from folks I've not seen in decades. They're all looking for hookups and breaks and jobs and alternatives.

The best value of the internet has always been experience. You can study from a vast array of people saving you tons of money and time.

Nature rewards performance only. Speed, cunning, accuracy, efficiency, strength, confidence, are what she invests in.

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http://www.boonestoons.com
http://www.spacefool.com

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oogieboogie
IE # 265
Member # 2706

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We'll see. I'm just a reader and observer anymore, not really in the industry for a few years now. If it keeps interest, then it works. Ads turn people off. Call me a troll or whatever.
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Charles
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Yeah, well, if you behave like a troll, then whatever. And trolls turn people off alot more than ads.

Troll days are over on AN. They have been for years. Get in touch with us, identify yourself, give us a link to your site so we can help feed you traffic when you post and build a community around your art. If that's asking too much then we'll close your account next time you post if you don't get in touch with us first. Use the contact link to email and we'll go from there.

No more trolling ladies and gents, especially the holdovers from the old days here. Get in touch and let us know who you are. We're not here to fight you we're here to help if you want to use the forums constructively.

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oogieboogie
IE # 265
Member # 2706

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I'm a troll because I post my honest opinion? Nice.
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Charles
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No you're a troll because you're hiding anonymously while everyone else identifies themselves, and purposely disrupting the thread with your posts. Get in touch with us please.

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Charles
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Okay, getting back on topic, wanted to let folks know that we've received a request to buy ad space! That was fast. Sit tight folks, we'll get to it soon when we figure out how to do this.

Also, thought I'd mention that we heard earlier from a family in the Vancouver BC area who contacted us to say their teenage son is digging on the videos in AN's player! Great, that's good to know.

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Im2dGuy
IE # 25
Member # 1160

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Nice Revision on the site guys.
Looks great Snakebyte.

Perhaps 'ad' is the wrong term
and turning off the naysayers.

The way it's explained above,
it sounds like you are linking to
artistic content, to artist's websites,
short films, independent artist's stores,
content, etc...

So AN becomes a big
animation portal for content.
I like it.

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www.animationbrad.com

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Charles
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Thanks Brad. There's nothing wrong with calling it what it is, ad space. With the naysayers here it doesn't matter. They complain when the homepage and site were plain, and they complain when we actually do something with it. The issue isn't AN or us or ads, it's usually them.

Check out both the ASIFA-Hollywood.org website and AnimationArchive.org. Neither of them link to us and many of the links they have, have to be bought, so what's the big deal with AN selling ad space. Cartoonbrew, coldhardflash, all of these places sell ads, and the mother of them all is AWN, but none of these guys are chastised for trying to generate revenue.

We're going to be selling advertising, plain and simple and that's not a bad thing, it's good.

The traffic coming to our homepage is steady even late on a Saturday night, and it will only increase with time. If we were getting decent traffic to our homepage before when there was nothing on it, I'm certain it'll be even stronger 30 days from now after we've loaded additional content, and 30 days after that when there's even more.

The homepage will be a destination all its own, not just a way to get to the forums.

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SoleilSmile
IE # 120
Member # 1483

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o_0 Whoa. Wow. cool.

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HipChick Comics and Animatress Blog

www.hipchickcomics.com
http://www.animatress.blogspot.com/

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Skynet
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ad-ver-tise-ment
noun
a notice or announcement in a public medium promoting a product, service, or event.

informal - person or thing regarded as a means of recommending something

ORIGIN late Middle English denoting a statement calling attention to something.

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The question is more like, who wants to be recommended on AN?

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skynet[at]animationnation.com
http://www.alivenotdead.com/slipperysky
http://www.slipperysky.com

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Greg B
IE # 118
Member # 886

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Skynet, I've mentioned to Charles over the years about the revenue potential about AN. He was reticent because he conferred to me at least it was about the message AN stands for.

I agree but this world is based on capital and like that proverbial "Shucks" sandwich, the more bread you have the less "shucks" you taste.

Once the talent on this board is consolidated and directed toward products and services you will have to beat people off with sticks to keep them out of AN.

Imagine if in your youth ( don't know how old ya' are ) if you could push a few buttons on a computer and get to chat with professionals in animation, fine art, writing, film, radio, comics, computer technologies, history and a couple dozen more professions and not only that but could contribute? Thar ain't no other place like AN when we ain't a-fussin' amongst ourselves.

Right now people are looking for answers in what might be the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. Folks need that info for survival. Ain't no game anymore things have gotten more serious than a rattler in a sleepin' bag with a bear outside the tent.

Companies and individuals need an AN to announce their goods and services. Just you wait til the colleges and high schools and art schools realize AN is here. There'll be more ruckus than the upheaval of creation.

I can hear it now, " Ma! There's a website with artists from Disney, Dreamworks, DC and Marvel Comics, Big Jump, Hanna Barbera, Nickelodeon, all and I can ask them questions, show off some of my artwork for critique! "

How much would you have to pay for all this in the real world?

A freakin' fortune I tell ya.

Any one of us has given out millions of dollars worth of experience and advice in the archives and that ain't exaggeratin' none.

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http://www.boonestoons.com
http://www.spacefool.com

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SNAKEBITE
IE # 101
Member # 17

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yeah, this idea that AD means BAD is weird to me. its not like we're filling up space with CHeetos banners or something. The ADs are you and if you think that "ad"(you), the creators, is a bad thing then you guys have self worth issues you need to get over. Cuz you're worth it and we've worked our butts off to show you you're worth it.

Big ass billboard?? Betchya sweet turnaround thats a big billboard. Again, to promote you. look how cool Michel Gange looks on that billboard!!!

Again, who else out there has the capabilities and inclination to promote you on such a scale???

Everything on the new home page will be content, including the ads. AN solid content, even when we sell ad space to adobe or maya or etc etc. Everything will be related to what we do and how we can do it better...and our members should cheer us on like we cheer then on..and if you can't then AN is not the place for you. god speed.

We have people from all over the world watching us. thats what investors look for when wanting to invest. a market. you showcase what you're working on here on AN and because of that you receive a larger audience then you would from just releasing it on a blog then you have more ammunition when you approach venture capitol.

There's all kinds of way to look at the new AN. don't limit yourself with cynicism.

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contact@animationnation.com
www.artbysnakebite.com
www.myspace.com/mrbite
www.redskystudio.com
www.myspace.com/redskystudio

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Charles
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There will always be cynical people, no matter how altruistic one's intentions are. Be negative for the sake of being negative and you will eventually compromise your credibility. For example, Friday afternoon Snake and I were talking and I mentioned to him for a laugh, who I thought the first person was going to be to piss on the parade. You'd be surprised how close my guess was, or maybe you wouldn't.

I don't mind a healthy, considerate critique, but I do mind attitude. To ignore all the obvious positives of the new homepage and dwell only on the ad aspect of it, well that's just not balanced and it becomes a disruption on a topic devoted to progressing the site.

When content is introduced within the free space, the areas reserved for paying ads won't seem as dominant as they do now. Also, when we start placing ads there, the ambiance will change and it won't be as offensive to the very small minority of people who have a problem with it as it looks now because of the reserved ad space.

This is a powerful utility that we have here folks. Keep in mind as I've mentioned before, it's only the beginning. You're seeing the homepage in its raw introductory form. It's going to grow and evolve. It will be a continuous progressive work. There's much to look forward to.

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Charles
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For the sake of clarification, those ad spaces are of course available to our members, but from my angle on this I see studios, schools, publishers, software companies, etc advertising with us. That was my original intent in introducing ad space on the home page cuz that's where the requests were coming from. I'm not looking to our community to support us financially by selling ad space to our members, although that's an option that's available to you of course.

The ad space is intended more for institutions, businesses, groups, what have you, that offer a product or service to the animation community and industry. As I mentioned previously, there's a lot of banners so we can offer reasonable rates and keep advertisers with us.

We're going to build a content rich site to attract visitors to the homepage as a destination of its own. It's not going to be only a way to the forums as it was before. I should restate that, it no longer is just a way to the forums. The homepage is going to be built out, we'll have auxillary pages from there, we'll have video libraries, we'll have so much great stuff going on, anything we can imagine we can now do.

Our immediate goal will be to get traffic coming to the homepage for its content, and in turn and in time, our advertisers can enjoy a place where their message can reach the visitors who enjoy the site.

Win win all around. Everybdy wins from this.

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Charles
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One of the best aspects of the new homepage for me personally is that for the first time since the advent of the site, I'm at ease with it. That hasn't been the case until now. It did its job through some very difficult years. Now we can be move in a direction that's much more along the lines of AN's original intent.

I'll be opening a new topic soon that will be geared towards getting member input and comments as to how you think we can best utilize the new format and taking your suggestions as to ideas for content. Thanks for your many positive reposnses to the new homepage. More good things to come.

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mojodesign
IE # 237
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I've been a bit busy and so I haven't been able to chime in on the new page.

Congratulations on the crew for such a great looking site! It's all so organized. Was all that content mentioned on this site before? I was finding vids that I had never seen or heard of. Fantastic. We can definitely do a lot with this new AN too.

Great stuff, once again. You'll be hearing from me as soon as I get my stuff together and get an online store up and running.

Thank you so much Charles, Snakebite and co. This is going to help a lot of us reach out to a bigger audience.

-Jose S.

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hamsterbite
IE # 3
Member # 277

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I can't believe the opportunities for us here. I'm out of ways to say thanks to you guys. I want to just take the afternoon off and explore what's here, then the rest of the weekend to polish up some stuff of my own to post. Thank you!
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Rupert Piston
IE # 175
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I've been way busy so far this year and haven't had a chance to check in, but I'll go on record with a great big WOW about everything. I had no idea what to expect, but it rocks in every way I can think of that matters.

Well done too all whose hand is on this!

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Caracal
IE # 161
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Hi Snakebite, Charles

I tried out the site for a test run. First of all I think you have some great ideas going here and this could be a launch pad for a lot of talent and a lot of new ideas about networking in the animation industry.

I'd like to offer some practical considerations about navigating the site and some aesthetic feedback. I'm currently working on two websites myself for Tripod Entertainment and I'm dealing with similar issues of navigation and content. In the end it's just my opinion so please don't think that I think I know anything more than my opinion:)

The emphasis from my point of view is to make a website site easy for the visitor to get to content and also to easily find their way OUT of the content and back to home. Preferably without ever using the back button of the browser.

So not to distract the viewer with confusing navigation, circular links or empty content. (Hey that sounds pretty good. You would almost think I know what I'm talking about heh heh, By the way Claes Oldenburg said [about art critics in general] anything you can "say" about ART is corn. )

Ahemm! With that said.....(wait a sec let me get my brewski)

Here are some places on the webpage I would suggest you consider reviewing:

The faint dark lettering for the top links for "buy space", "submit" etc are not easily recognized as links. I would either set them off with another color or add a rollover so they brighten(or something) so you know its a link.

On the cycling banner links if you plan to have a lot of artists here I would add a drop down list or link bar of thumbnails below the banner or some way of directly getting to the content. This gives the visitor the option to NOT have to wait for the whole thing to cycle through. I'd also slow down the rate of change so you can look at the content and have time to decide to click on the graphic you like.

On the central Content section I find the small narrow font used is not easy to read.

I find the Content "button" that appears after you make a selection text is too small and not easily spotted because of size and color. I had to hunt for it to figure out how to get back to the main content window. I don't want to work this hard but maybe thats just me.

Aesthetic reactions:

I'm not real keen on the drab military colors for an "animation" site portal but thats just my taste. But it is really DRAB man! Maybe you might consider Desert Storm colors instead:)

In regards to all the space fillers with the "your ad here" I really think they are unnecessary and clutter up the page with empty content.

If you think about it you already have a link with information about buying space. And it is also obvious (to me) by the existing ads in the columns that ad space is available.

The reason I would remove them is because a lot of viewers like me react negatively to first of all, having to read empty content on a webpage, and second, when I click on it , my reward is it just cycles me to the same page. So there is no reward of information by what is written nor any reward clicking on it, It's empty content which is generally a negative thing to have on any website. If nothing else I would at least remove any hyperlinks to images without content. I know your intent is to excite artists into putting up content but to me it has a negative impact on my feeling towards the site.

Again because I think you already have a link for advertising and its implicit by the ads already present you really don't need the obvious solicitations and it just clutters up your page.

In the same category are the "coming soon" parts of the site. Again I think it's empty content cluttering the site (to me). I'd suggest either a main menu link that informs the visitor what you plan for the site else put a small rollover link on those "comming soon" texts with a little explanation what will be coming. I also think it's important that if something "looks" like it SHOULD be a link like the "Comic Cache" text it should be a link to some kind of content. Really it's just a courtesy to the visitor not to force them to figure out what is real content or empty content by trial and error.

I realize all this is in early developement. so use what you think is valuable and discard the rest. I also know you know I want you to succeed and I'm sure you will take my comments in the spirit they are intended. It's your next step in AN's evoulution and a very positive thing indeed!

Cheers
Gregg

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SNAKEBITE
IE # 101
Member # 17

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ALL of it is valuable. Even if its ahead of us,its valuable. Most of the issues are time based. we're getting around to everything you suggested, but it takes time. But everything you say helps tremendously. We're so close to it, sometimes its hard to see the obvious.

thanks a million!!!!

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contact@animationnation.com
www.artbysnakebite.com
www.myspace.com/mrbite
www.redskystudio.com
www.myspace.com/redskystudio

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SNAKEBITE
IE # 101
Member # 17

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and for everyone, the color will change as the site changes. The idea is to rotate color themes every month once we get on track, so to give everyone a chance to see their favorite colors in action,lol.

thanks for your patience and participation!

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contact@animationnation.com
www.artbysnakebite.com
www.myspace.com/mrbite
www.redskystudio.com
www.myspace.com/redskystudio

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acme
IE # 51
Member # 1591

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Just wanted to say a big THANKS for the ad space!!!!

I also wanted to say I like the idea of the colors rotating out now and again. Give it a fresh take every so often.

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Zane Kohler

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Dennis Woodyard
IE # 81
Member # 2314

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I just posted about my Ebay sale. It got me thinking maybe there could be a "Marketplace" section in the AN for members to list items they have for sale or at least links to their online stores. Maybe a AN store can be set up so AN get as commission for the sale for listed items.

Something to think about.

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The Gods that smiled when you were born are Laughing now - My Favorite Fortune Cookie Saying

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SNAKEBITE
IE # 101
Member # 17

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Most def. its all something to think about. but thats the concept of the ad banners. give us a link to your product and your banner and we'll put you up.

this is what we are attempting to do.

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contact@animationnation.com
www.artbysnakebite.com
www.myspace.com/mrbite
www.redskystudio.com
www.myspace.com/redskystudio

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