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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » "Will The Glen Keane Of CG Please Stand Up?" (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: "Will The Glen Keane Of CG Please Stand Up?"
bigshot
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Like the jazz singing of Ella Fitzgerald, film noir masterpieces like The Maltese Falcon and Double Indemnity, and even Arrow Shirt ads by J. C. Leyendecker... If you know a little bit about American popular culture from the first half of the 20th century, you can't help but be dismayed by what's happened to popular culture since. The only way to halt the decline is by fighting mediocrity.

See ya
Steve

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Charles
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As a fan of JC Leyendecker's and the other names you mentioned Steve, we have that in common, and we also have in common a passion to fight mediocrity. You do it by getting people to be mindful of the past, I do it by having them being mindful of the future. One of the ways I strive to do that as an educator is having my students commit to personal excellence in their work and also in their lives.

The issue I take as I've stated before in this thread, is that a personal opinion, as valid as that opinion may be to some, that animation was better prior to 1960 for example, is simply not a quantifiable fact. Some may find it more appealing, charming, nostalgic, so on, but you can't publish it in an encyclopedia entry under a heading of "pre-1960 animation which is better than anything that has ever followed since."

That's the big problem I have with some animation critics. They may be experts at telling you who worked on what film when, but when it comes to films they like or don't like, it breaks down to subjectivity and that opinion can be challenged and effectively argued. An opinion is not a fact, and there is a big difference between the two but they don't seem to realize that.

Another problem that I have with critics. Although I believe that Steve has the courage and professionalism for a face to face debate, I don't believe that others do. Until these guys have the backbone to publicly face those who disagree with them, I take everything they say with a shaker full of salt.

For example, how does Roy Disney's investment in the Harleem Globetrotter franchise equate with racism? There is a distinction between ideals and one's genetics, so how does an objection to an ideology that has nothing to do with race warrant a public accusation of racism? At the Platform Festival in Portland in 2007, I sat through a presentation made by one of the CartoonBrew guys, you can guess which one, whereby his highly opinionated presentation was conducted with the air of authority such as this art is good, it is better than this other art, and it's that way because I say so.

If you're an animation critic and you can't handle the intensity of a challenging discussion, and you storm out like a little kid taking his ball home, if you can't handle your own reviews, then you're not a responsible critic in my book. Be mindful please, this is not a fact, it is simply my opinion.

With an exception here and there, as with Steve Worth in this case and he's had his moments too, most of the critical voices in animation, at least the ones I've experienced through my experiences with this forum, have struck me as being close minded and intolerant of any view that contradicts their own. This isn't passion, it's insecurity, and it's devisive. Maybe someday they'll grow out of it, meanwhile, I find the hostility and elitism that eminates from them unappealing and I lose interest in what they have to say or what they think of things.

Objectivity is an essential element of credibility. With it more people will listen to your opinion. Without it, opinions tend to be dismissed.

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Charles
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Something else that's come to mind, especially in light of the "Hollywood only knows Hollywood" point that was brought up earlier.

There's a great opportunity to expand everyone's consciousness when it comes to animation outside of the Hollywood box, and that's the Annie Awards sponsored by ASIFA-Hollywood. On several occasions I've brought up Suzan Pitt, a remarkable avant-guard animator who's been making films for almost 4 decades. She's an independent, and her films are as far from the Hollywood norm as one can get, in my opinion, and I'm sure there would be widespread agreement if you're familiar with her films. She's as passionate an animation filmmaker as you can find, yet she gets no critical acclaim or even passing acknowledgement from this community of critics.

If you take a look at recent Annie Award recipients, in the category/categories that honor lifetime achievement or contributions to the art, you'll see it's pretty much all Hollywood. Recently it looks to me as if ASIFA-Hollywood has been taking care of its own. If everyone here's been covered with the accolades they deserve, then why not reach out of the Hollywood box and start giving a tip of the hat to animators who've spent their lives making films outside of the machine that everyone seems to be so up in arms about.

Don't just talk it, walk it.

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Ganklin
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in terms of elitism, i feel like i've turned a corner in recent years. my experience has taught me that almost every project is an undertaking and has its ups and downs. there are harsh realities that a modern production has to deal with that our 1950's counter parts did not have...such as extremely fast turn around times for almost triple the footage output per week. i've learned to look at where the heart is on a piece, and i can appreciate where the craft is treated with respect.

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jeffnevins
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This is a great dialogue. Thanks for the posts.

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My game art & animation-
http://www.tangerinepop.com/GraveShift2/

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bigshot
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quote:
there are harsh realities that a modern production has to deal with that our 1950's counter parts did not have...such as extremely fast turn around times for almost triple the footage output per week.
Carlo Vinci animated an entire 26 minute Flintstones episode by himself every six weeks. When Snow White was in crunch time at the end of production, Grim Natwick had six assistants and was putting out 35 feet of full animation a week.

See ya
Steve

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Ganklin
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i have zero assistants or inbetweeers. i have to do my own cleanup in shots with up to 7 characters in it at times.

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www.shamoozal.com

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tstevens
IE # 234
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I think every generation has had its fair share of work. I've met plenty of guys from the fifties and sixties who worked 15 and 16 hour days.

I can remember blow drying cels with a hair dryer to get them onto camera quicker so we could get our film out on the last cargo flight to the lab in LA. For tests we shot on 16mm color positve and developed it in the back of our studio on an old WWII processor. Compare that to using an in-expensive Ink and Paint program running on a decent machine: You can view your tests in real time now! As for assistants - some people have them and some don't. I'm lucky enough to have an assistant on about half of the productions that I work on. The other half of the time I do my own clean-up and inbetween. In fact most of the time I read my own exposure sheets, do my own layout, and send my own fed-ex!

Every generation thinks they have it rough. I'm sure if you ask around you'll find animators opf all ages who could tell you which studio had the best carpet to sleep on. Hell, at most studios in LA you had to pay for coffee up into the eighties and at some studios they charged you to park on the lot. Compare that to a place like PIXAR that (by all accounts) has a fairly good cafeteria and a gym.

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bigshot
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I imagine people today don't know what 35 feet of animation means... That's 30 seconds of full animation a week. Grim animated Snow White herself, no simple task.

See ya
Steve

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tstevens
IE # 234
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Minor correction on that...

There are 16 frames per 35mm foot of film or 1.5 feet per second (that is why exposure sheets are broken down into 16 frame blocks). 30 seconds of 35mm film is 45 feet. 35 feet is a little over 23 seconds.

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Ganklin
IE # 14
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thank you, but i know how long 35 feet is. plus i dont think i have it that bad, i'm just saying its different today than it was in then.

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