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Topic: Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs
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toonstruck
Member
Member # 1846
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posted
wow.. imagine if someone tried to release that today.
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Methuselah
IE # 148
Member # 401
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posted
Her we go again...every few months someone "discovers" the jaw-dropper that is Coal Black. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Brilliant cartoon--one of the very best musical comedy cartoon shorts ever. And made about 60 years ago, when popular culture(and a lot of other things)were very different from today.
What's really amazing beyond the short itself-the animation and music-is that the main voices are black actor/singers, not white men & women pretending to be black but Ruby Dandridge and other real actors. Unheard of for cartoons in those days.
You really should see this one one a big screen with an audience to appreciate it.
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Pixel Pusher
Member
Member # 1558
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posted
well, in a way it was released today. captain 3d
posted and it's on google video, so it's literally
re-released.
that cartoon has flawless timimg, pacing, layout,
and animation.
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Mr. Fun
IE # 63
Member # 352
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posted
I've probably covered this before, but back in 1979 the city of Oakland hosted the Black Filmmakers Awards, an event that honored African-American actors, musicians and writers.
One of the presenters of the prestigious award was non other than the late Robert Clampett. An odd choice one might think in this predominately African-American venue.
Yet, when Clampett was introduced as the director of "Coal Black", he received a hero's welcome from the packed theater of African-Americans.
So much for the accusations of racism in this very entertaining cartoon.
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Charles
Administrator
Member # 7
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posted
Mr. Fun sets the record straight.
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Blinkatron
IE # 225
Member # 580
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posted
1979 was almost 30 years ago and the world has continued to move on. I think Coal Black is an amazing, funny, beautifully animated, wonderfully directed cartoon -- but it also serves as a painful reminder of what the prevailing attitudes were at the time. Don't forget that this film was released twelve years before Rosa Parks made her stand on the bus. In the America of 1943 African-Americans were treated like second class citizens.
I suppose it is possible to view this film in the correct historical context, and it is possible to defend the film-makers as in 1943 this kind of stereotyping and casual bigotry was socially acceptable. But if it was made and released today it would be rightfully denounced as blatantly racist. Which it is.
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Jody
IE # 284
Member # 3374
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posted
I'd like to agree with you Blinkatron but today's media is already full of more blatant displays of mean racism than what exists in Coal Black. All of which just pumps out into unhindered space. In fact I think if released today this cartoon would fail to excite any group other than Bob Clampett lovers.
You are absolutely right that Coal Black is a reminder of an ugly period in American history.
(I was just listening to Nina Simone’s version of Strange Fruit)
But I can accept that Bob Clampett was no more hateful of blacks than Disney was of "injuns" (in Peter Pan) and that 1940 white audiences most likely saw Coal Black as much an intentionally derogatory spoof on blacks as it was a spoof on Snow White.
It is funny however why today people question the “darky iconography” of Coal Black and not why in Pinocchio a kindly old woodworker would go to bed with a loaded pistol!.... in a sleepy little village in the alps! (sorry, just kidding)
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Joris
Member
Member # 3048
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posted
quote:
(...) and not why in Pinocchio a kindly old woodworker would go to bed with a loaded pistol!.... in a sleepy little village in the alps! (sorry, just kidding)
..most likely because there were some Italians in town!
In retrospect Coal Black sure seems racist, but even though times and perceptions change, it's jazzy upbeat atmosphere still works really inspiring, and pays a tribute to Afro-American culture.
Makes you wonder what Disney has in mind for the Frog Princess, though... Altough definitely not of the same nature, it shows you can perfectly adopt a fairy tale in any kind culture, mood, and era, and make it just as interesting.
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Joris
Member
Member # 3048
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posted
quote:
..most likely because there were some Italians in town!
Just as I had the reply button I realised how stupid this remark was as the story takes place in Italy! But Stromboli is the only one with an Italian accent.. so that's what I was aiming for.
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-FP-
IE # 13
Member # 914
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posted
There's nothing in COAL BLACK that begins to approach the destructive, insulting, self-perpetuated sterotype on display in rap videos today. These videos promote albums and fashion and behavior to children, with no significant social outcry. I wanna know why COAL BLACK can't be shown on Cartoon Network in prime time, but it's okay to show, at the same time of day a couple of channels over, a gold-toothed, jeweled-cane waving afferkin american maroon lounging in a swimming pool full of floating paper money and 40s of malt liquor while nearby bethonged hos shakes they bottom parts, intercut with shots of pimpsuited, armed young gentlemen cruising around in Escalades and similar vehicles equipped with rims so large they're actually bigger than the tires so they kick up sparks and make the car handle like crap.
Looking at COAL BLACK another way, can't it be seen as mere cartoon caricature, as acceptable as others? Is an Elmer Fudd cartoon comdemned for its depiction of white males as ineffectual midgets with speech impediments? Is Snagglepuss reviled for his insulting depiction of gay wildlife?
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Jody
IE # 284
Member # 3374
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posted
quote:
Is Snagglepuss reviled for his insulting depiction of gay wildlife?
hmmmm...I always wondered why he dressed like a Chippendale. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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monkeydad
Member
Member # 1566
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posted
The dice on Price Chawmin's front teeth reminded me of the "grill bling" worn by many contemporary rappers.
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Mr. Fun
IE # 63
Member # 352
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posted
Didn't you know that rap videos are the "cartoons" of the new millennium?
Oh my goodness. I'm beginning to sound like Bill Cosby.
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Lee Crowe
IE # 154
Member # 1135
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posted
Internal dialog:
"Snagglepuss is NOT GAY!"
"But he is pink...and dresses like a Chippendale...and the way he talks...hmmmm...."
Wow. All these cartoon characters of old...coming out of the closet...!
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Look me up on http://IMDb.com.
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E. Allen
IE # 301
Member # 3297
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posted
To me, any Rich Kid music video is more insulting than some 60 + year-old cartoon that featured Black talent.
I wonder what these naysayers have to say about these new direct-to-DVD "thugsploitation" movies being released--Mike Jones in American Dream, Beanie Siegel in State Property 1 & 2, and the list goes on. Ah well, since it is an all-black cast and a mostly black crew responsible for this product, it can slide, right? Right?
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Mr. Fun
IE # 63
Member # 352
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posted
Whatever happen to the animated feature, "Little Pimp?" Was that movie offensive because it was about a pimp -- or because it was simply a bad film?
I can't help wonder what that movie would have been like if Bob Clampett had directed it?
At least it would have been funny.
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Michael W Howe
IE # 251
Member # 1827
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posted
I found it to be very well animated, the clip I saw of it. Though after seeing it, I love the way the wicked queen calls 'Murder Incopolated.' To me, that's just a fun word- incopolated. It's like what they did with what Tigger says, when he mispronounces things, and they come out much funnier.
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"He's got three Piston Cups!"
"He did WHAT in his cup!??"
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australopith
IEcm
Member # 2746
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posted
For better or worse, this is a reference to AMOS 'N' ANDY, with its "Fresh Air Taxicab Co. of America, Incorpolated" -- spelled as such on merchandise that was sold into the 1940s.
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Jody
IE # 284
Member # 3374
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posted
quote:
I love the way the wicked queen calls 'Murder Incopolated.'
Maybe the 'Seben Dwarfs' could be incopolated into some sensitivity training for Imus!
errr.... I think the release date on the Cartoon network just got pushed back another seventy years.
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Mr. Fun
IE # 63
Member # 352
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posted
I loved the way the old "Amos and Andy" show mangled the English language.
Today, that wouldn't even be funny because today's knuckle-heads wouldn't even get the joke, or even know the language was being spoken incorrectly.
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Jody
IE # 284
Member # 3374
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posted
True. You just never know how people will read these things. Not everyone is an artist or animator and sees the world the way you do.
On the internet you can be any color in the RGB spectrum you like and never get fired.
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-FP-
IE # 13
Member # 914
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posted
quote:
On the internet you can be any color in the RGB spectrum you like and never get fired
I'd like to see that email:
"You're fired from the internet".
Full disclosure:
I am 237 218 101 (PC standard gamma)
I'll tell ya about a special secret appeal COAL BLACK has: The evil queen is a perfect replica of an ex-coworker of mine at my old civil service day job. I used to show some co-workers, with no advance warning, a battered VHS tape of COAL BLACK. They'd always yell, "IT'S BETTY!"
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Jody
IE # 284
Member # 3374
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posted
Ha! FP with you it would be more like
"Sorry we're not picking up your options"
Regards,
WWW
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Hockey Frog
IE # 32
Member # 1432
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posted
Familiarity and understanding obviously don't stand the test of time. It's all about white and black now. Sad.
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"I was obliged to work hard. Anyone who works equally hard will succeed, equally."
Johann Sebastian Bach
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Jody
IE # 284
Member # 3374
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posted
HockeyFrog.
You wouldn't happen to be a Maple Leafs fan would you? Cuz it will make a big difference how I tackle your point.
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Hockey Frog
IE # 32
Member # 1432
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posted
I'm a Canucks fan; but also a bit of a Habs fan, so, naturally, regular season I'm a Leaf hater, but I love to watch the carnage when those two "original six" teams get together. But no, blue and white ain't my colours.
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"I was obliged to work hard. Anyone who works equally hard will succeed, equally."
Johann Sebastian Bach
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Jody
IE # 284
Member # 3374
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posted
Then yes....I agree it's very sad
GO KNUCKLEHEADS!!!!
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