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Author Topic: Why is anime better written?
Moira
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Why can’t or won’t American animation studios create shows or films as well written as most anime?

The best of our best seem to be Pixar’s work, and that is still overly reliant on fixed stereotypes and themes. Why is American animation so determined to not step away from the tired stories and characters it’s done since its inception? There seem to be unwritten (or perhaps written) rules that our studios refuse to break.

They either can't or won't allow horror, sadness and humor to keep company, unlike anime. Question religion, or even the existence of God? Heaven forfend! Which is why American studios never create anything as sublime as Full Metal Alchemist, with young Ed and Al on the island, realizing at last why they're being stranded there, literally attacked and starving, has anything to do with alchemy.

Anime has no sentimentality towards children. Kids get the s*** kicked out of them, experience tragedy, are reminded that they are kids and don't know everything (unlike the worship of children in American animation), and the kids either transcend their circumstances, or are ****ed up by them. Just like real life.

American animation hasn’t begun to come up with anything like Paranoia Agent. Our studios just don't seem to understand how beautiful "what the F***?" moments can be, unlike that show. Is the toy really alive, or is the girl insane? And what connection if any does she have to the kid with the gold bat? Who cares? The beauty of it makes my eyes moist.

One episode of Full Metal Alchemist, Wolf’s Rain, or The Last Exile has more depth and substance than all the major American films or TV programs I’ve ever seen, and I’m into my fourth decade. I understand that part of the reason is that anime comes from a country with completely different mythology, social structure and history. So when they tackle themes we are apparently afraid to, such as ethics, religion and war, they give us fresh perspectives. They haven’t the same taboos American animation has: Even gender and sexuality are explored and expanded.

It’s not a matter that the art of animation doesn’t lend itself towards excellence writing. It’s not that there isn’t a market for excellent writing: anime has proven there's a ravenous hunger for it. So why can’t or won’t American studios create films of quality, instead of a male cow with udders?

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

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tstevens
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O.K. - one of the first things you have to understand about anime is that anime was originally used to produce ideas that were to costly for live action and it was always meant to compete with live-action. Animation in the US has almost always been about "animation" for the sake of animation. Even today most animated films in the US are judged relative to other animated films and not to live action. In Japan the films are discussed side by side to live action.

As for the superiority of Japanese story telling I think the themes might be more complex but often the pacing is slow at best and the stories are often misguided and convoluded. Miyazaki is often the best example of this: his films tend to meander with many of the main plot points never really being dealt with (ex. Anyone ever wonder why in Mononoke the main characters start the factory back up that is killing the forest spririts).

I would love to see more interesting stories discussed and animated in the US but because animation is seen as a genre and not "a means to an end" it will probably stay relegated to a childrens audience.

The flip side of this is that I would also like to see an anime film with full character animation instead of full FX animation (Sorry - I need to see more than 3 mouthshapes and speedlines).

As an interesting side note, Anime and American animation are produced in almost completey different ways as well. In general they do smaller more detailed drawings top pegged while we tend towards larger less detailed drawings bottom pegged. Rough animation for them is nearly full illustration while for us it is more like vague structure with little to no detail.

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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quote:
One episode of Full Metal Alchemist, Wolf’s Rain, or The Last Exile...
Interesting that you only listed anime TV shows and not any anime films. A 13- to 26-episode TV series like ABC's live-action Lost has more time to tell a story than a film. Also, compare the Escaflowne TV series to the more spectacular-yet-condensed Escaflowne animated feature film. The 13-hour TV series has a lot more going on than the 2-hour film.

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If you want to compare apples to apples, I don't think you should compare TV series to feature films like Barnyard. Compare TV shows to TV shows instead. You'll find plenty of good American TV shows that tell their stories over the course of a season, but they might not be animated. I'm thinking specifically of live-action shows like Lost and 24.

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For what it's worth, a few Western animated shows did tell stories over the course of a series. Starship Troopers: Roughnecks told a story over 30 or so episodes, but those episodes aired out-of-order. Invasion America told a single story over six episodes. Gargoyles fans praise the second season of the series, so I look forwards to watching that series on DVD.

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If you want to discuss animated feature films, don't mention TV series. Mention the Studio Ghibli films instead, or A Tree of Palme. Bring up Memories, or Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust.

Or, pick another anime feature film that you liked, and explain how it explored wilder territory than Western animated features like Triplets of Belleville, Heavy Metal or Rock & Rule.

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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quote:
The flip side of this is that I would also like to see an anime film with full character animation instead of full FX animation (Sorry - I need to see more than 3 mouthshapes and speedlines).
Rent Akira and Spriggan. Both films had true lip-synch animation to their Japanese vocal tracks.

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tstevens
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I actually own the special edition of Akira!

While I agree that the synch is well done, I would also tend to say that Akira might be the best animated film to come out of Japan. I would definately put the beggining of the film up as one of the best openings to a film ever produced and the produstion value of the film from animation to camera is stellar.

I think most American audiences look at anime and see mostly the "standard" looking pieces (I would tend to include myself in this category). But when the WAchowski's produced the Animatris they opened the US to some of the Japanese directors that are stylistically different than the standard stuff we see in America like Sailor Moon, Ninja scroll, and Tottoro. Ironically, the weakest segment on the Animatrix was the one directed by Peter Chung.

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Smeeb!
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People try Moria. I've pitched animation ideas that were more adult oriented, with strager stories. In fact, I know many animators who have done likewise, but producers just weren't willing to go along with it. Blame them, not American artists.

And I'll go out on a limb and say that not all anime is "well written". Watch that Bo-Bo-Bo_Bo...whatevcer show and tell me that's "well written". ugh.

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Moira
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Yes, all anime isn't well written. Which is why in my original post I used the word "most." As in, most of the anime I've seen, series or film, is better written than any American animation I've ever seen, series or film.

As for quality of animation, I hardly think Full Metal Alchemist or Inuyash is limited to a few expressions or mouth sounds. Have you seen some of the expressions Edward Elric has? Evocative, to say the least.

But I'm focusing on writing, not art, for series as well as films. Are there gaps and flaws in the writing of some anime? Certainly. But a flawed Trigun is still better than the best episode of any American animated series I've personally seen.

Do the stories ramble? Perhaps --I leave that to personal taste. I'd rather follow Inuyasha & Co. through a couple rambling seasons than any American animated series. And very often, the anime series has an actual story arc, and characters die and stay dead, and the "rambling" ties together at the end. American series seem to want to milk the cow even after it's dead dry. I have no emotional investment in a character's future when I know there's no real threat to her or his life. Oo, I'm really worried about the Joker offing Bats, or Lex Luthor doing in Superman/boy/infant/fetus/whatever.

There are so many good novels that could be adapted, and I have to believe there are writers with great original stories that would make great animated films or series. Why can't we use them? Disney is heralding it's return to 2D: It would be wonderful if they'd use this opportunity to take risks.

Well, risks to American film. Not risks in anime.

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OFFBEAT
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quote:
Why is anime better written?
Simple.. Because they don't pander to "child" audiences.

Which usually means.. not entertaining children, but making the most non-offensive product that caters to every overprotective parent group out there wouldn't raise a stink about.

...and there's a bigger $$ audience for that than Anime. And animation has always been a bu$ine$$.

Nothing is preventing you from making your own cartoons with whatever subject material you want.

That is, of course... you have millions of dollars. Otherwise... take 2 seconds imagining yourself proposing to investors.. "Oh.. I got this great idea for a movie.. the protagonist questions the existance of self, and god.. there's sex.. there's violence.. blood.. gore.. no wussy kid stuff!!! ... oh, and I want it to be animated."

...THAT's why.

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droosan
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On a basic level, it is due to a cultural difference between how animation is perceived in Japan vs. the west; i.e., it is true that anime is seen as a cost-effective and viable alternative to live-action filmmaking .. which is why you see a lot of sci-fi and FX-heavy anime.

But as OFFBEAT hints, the size of the market also comes into play. Though its popularity in the west has risen in the last couple of decades, anime is still primarily made with the japanese market in mind only. Miyazaki has famously stated that he doesn't much care whether his films play well outside of Japan, and he is not alone in his attitude. Much western animation, OTOH, must consider a worldwide english-speaking market -- if not a worldwide cross-cultural/multi-lingual market.

But that really only pertains to the mass-mediums of television and film. There is plenty of opportunity for diversity in style and content on an independent level ..

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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quote:
But a flawed Trigun is still better than the best episode of any American animated series I've personally seen.
I strongly recommend renting the wonderful Invader Zim.

[Yes]

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ApeLad
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I second that recommendation. How can you go wrong with a show written by TV's Frank?
I won't weigh in on the thread at large though, I tend to avoid Anime aside from Miyazaki.

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Noogy
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I personally feel that Inuyasha is one of the greatest things to ever happen to animation, story wise.

Great character relationships, humor, action, and for a TV anime it has some fantastic animation.

All of my inspiration comes from anime, video games, and pre-80's Disney.

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Joris
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I agree with Droosan and Offbeat. The way of percieving animation here is so different, that the potentional viewers group seems too small to make a 'different' kind of animation profitable.

It's kind of a paradox that where as western animation really concentrates on character animation, the psychology of the character never seems very complex. But the complexer it gets, the more potentional viewers you loose, the cheaper your animation has to be. Well, you get where I'm going to...

I think artistic wise, a complex and deeper story in animation could have lots of potential, but I doubt if it would pay off commercially. Maybe anime will change this trough the years. But for now, animation is indeed too much slated as a children's genre in western society, and it will take more then just releasing a different kind of animated movie to convince audiences that there's more to the medium.

Sometimes it bothers me, but at the same time I have to admit that I prefer the craft in animation over the story telling. When the graphic image is interesting and the story is entertaining enough, you've got my attention. The other way around I find it a lot harder to sit trough a movie. (I must note that neither graphic or story seem interesting enough in a lot of recent movies, though.) But when I think again of the amazing stories you could tell with the visual beauty of animation, I get your point.
Though then I'd like to adress the topic that all the animation looks the same (especially in CGI), and the answer will be pretty much the same as your story question.
In the end you're always dependent on the cultural perception of an audience which is very hard to change. Even though studios seem to depend too much on the importance of these perceptions.
There...! I think I'm contradicting myself! That's a bit of the complex character hiding inside me... hurray!

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Eric Hedman
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quote:
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.
Oh no you didn't. [Wink]

Um, having studied Japanese, and seen a buttload of anime' I would have to say....Well written?????

Whah????????
Have you really watched a lot of it or what?

There is a reason why Miyazaki calls his film
Manga Eiga.

Comic Book Films.

Because he would rather be associated
with Comic Books.


It's like Opera. If you like it...I am told, you shouldn't learn Italian. [Wink]


My favorite two quotes regarding writing for dramatic presentation are these.

A Bizarro comic had two men strolling by a pub near the Globe Theatre in ElizabethI England, and remarking to a frazzled Shakespeare scribbling away by an open window.... "Hello William, how goes this years crop of Sex and Violence?"

A panel at a comic book convention, a certain bespectacled lad said. "Gundam has all you need, It's like Shakespeare!"

Uh Yeah....The difference is in the poetry or transportability of the prose. If a "table read" can bring tears, it's well written.

If it needs music, lyrical cutting and 17 shades of sunset to sell the emotion...it's not well written.

Go watch
Amazing Screw-On Head on Sci-Fi or you tube.
That is good writing.

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Noogy
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quote:
Because he would rather be associated
with Comic Books.

But most anime nowadays is based on an established manga, and of course those are usually the strongest examples. In fact, a really good anime (depending on how you look at it) will use the original manga for most of the layout work.

The initial argument could also be applied to comic books. It seems the majority of comic work over here is action oriented (super heroes) or humor. Whereas in Japan it's broad. Romance, drama, action, you name it.

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Eric Hedman
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It's the newstand/train culture that made the market for disposable publications so broad.
Since "everyone" rides the trains and needs to keep themself occupied...

...it is assumed that every niche market can be exploited.

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Matt Wilson
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A lot of the more experimental and convention breaking series in Japan are all aired late at night, because they would never get any ratings support in the daytime.

The fact of the matter is, Japanese animated television isn't really any different from American animated television. America has its "Girl with superpowers fights crime.. AND GOES TO SCHOOL!! SCHOOL ROCKS!! YEAH, LETS GIVE IT UP FOR SCHOOL WOOO!!!" series, and Japan has its "Girl with magical phallic wand fights monsters.. AND GOES TO SCHOOL!!" series. They pander to their demographics as we pander to ours.

The difference just seems to be that some of the more risque or unorthodox ideas do seem to find a home deep deep into the night there, but here they'll never become anything more than a pitch.

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Greg B
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Moira it's all basically cultural.

It's not that we Americans can't do as well a job, it's that the creative process here is stifled in lieu of corporate greed and mind control.

In Japan the people are spiritually aware. They value spiritual things in a harmony not in a two-gunned/two-fisted fire and brimstone way we do here. To the Japanese the power of living spirit is in everything and can be found in everything. The full spectrum of the human condition can be found in the art and performances.

Basically they take pride in what they do and as a culture it follows to their economic model and is highly profitable. In the U.S. it's stagnated as so many political and other nonsensical attempts at mood control come into play.

No one can touch Akira Kurosawa's directing. Yet even the worst anime is often better storytelling than what you get here. Europe however retains a cultural integrity in their storytelling. Some brilliant, some absurd. Mostly you can tell somehow a story is being told.

So that's why the anime is better written. It's just a matter of pride and integrity from the janitor to the director to the audience.

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tstevens
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"So that's why the anime is better written. It's just a matter of pride and integrity from the janitor to the director to the audience."

There are a few thousand Disney and Pixar employees who might view that differently.

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Eric Hedman
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quote:
In Japan the people are spiritually aware. They value spiritual things in a harmony not in a two-gunned/two-fisted fire and brimstone way we do here. To the Japanese the power of living spirit is in everything and can be found in everything. The full spectrum of the human condition can be found in the art and performances.
Do you actually know any Japanese people?
I mean seriously. Really?
I mean, like, in Japan.
I do.
and...well....to think they are any less petty self-interested and oafish than us, is ludicrous.

There are just as many dumb people in Japan.

Go to Japan. You will find they are human...
...and I hope you can survive the disappointment.

I like them as humans. They are a hell of a lot more fun to dance and carrouse with.

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Greg B
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quote from Hedman:

quote:
"Do you actually know any Japanese people?"
No Eric I don't know any Japanese people. I made it all up.

Gimme a break.

I've got Japanese people in my family and that's gone on for damn near 200 years or more. Japanese people just didn't pop out of the thin blue sky when you woke up one day and discovered Speed Racer.

Sure the Japanese people are just as human as the next guy but in their art and storytelling I and many others find it of an awesome quality.

Too bad you don't. You're missing out on some fine art.

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Kevin
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I agree with Eric on both his posts. Well said, dude.

Regarding the initial sentence of the initial post . . . that's where you lost me. I have tried and retried watching anime that's been recommended to me by friends. When I get bored out of my mind and tell them I stopped watching in the middle of the second episode, they usually tell me I have to keep watching, and that by the 7th or 8th episode I'll be engrossed. They might be right, but I'm not going to take the time. And, frankly, there ARE times when the themes and ideas are fascinating, but the visuals are soooo stereotyped, and so underanimated, that I can't stay engaged.

My impression is that in most anime, the males have a single expression, or should I say non-expression (flat, slightly angry/tense). The women tend to be perky, cute, and all look and sound and move alike. I know there is nuance in there, but I'm not tuned in enough to catch it at first glance. If the females didn't usually have different colored hair, I'd never be able to tell them apart (I'm kidding here, so please don't feel the need to give a long list of all the dramatically diverse anime characters out there).

Not that there isn't great stuff in anime, but these blanket-statement arguments seem pointless. It's great if one type of animation or comics or movies or whatever speaks to you, and you find it endlessly entertaining. But please don't confuse personal opinions about "the best" entertainment as absolutes.

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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If anyone cares, some eye-candy clips (no audio):

The "Saint Spiral Whip" shot from Wedding Peach DX:
Download (5.6MB)

A moving-hold shot from the "Magnetic Rose" segment of Memories:
Download (1.5MB)

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omnigon
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I sum it up this way:

American animation hangs on the stereotype that 'cartoons are for kids'

In japan, Anime is a staple of adult entertainment. Frankly adults are capable of ingesting and understanding the complexities of the type of stories being told in anime. Trying to get a child to see and understand that just isnt' going to happen in america. so, studios continue to make 'cartoons for kids'. Simple stories, clear achetypes, etc...

you change the way the American movie goer thinks, and prove it to their wallets and I promise you studios would make 'better written' stories.

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Trondheimfan
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Maybe anime touches more on certain themes that you care about than most American animation does, but no way do I think that makes them any better written than other examples of animation.
Writing about something and writing well are two completely different things in my opinion.
And what's up with all the generalisation when it comes to anime?
Is all anime the same? Is all Amercain animation the same? Are all Japanese people the same? [Razz]
Different movies that are made by different people in different countries end up being different.
There's some anime that I like, and some that I don't, as is the case with me regarding American animation, European animation, or wherever it's from.
Of course there are many anime shows and films out there that are very similar, but that can probably be attributed to the same reasons why most American animated feature films have been alike lately(copying the latest hit, the never-ending quest for a box-office-formula, etc..)
There are actually a lot of manga out there that don't look anything like what you'd typically expect from a manga. But I think those rarely make it to the U.S., or Europe.
I guess in most anime series the writers tend to throw in as many plot twists, characters, and storylines into the overall story, and while it does make them more complex, I don't think that's necessarily better writing. Just like a simple drawing can be a better drawing than a very complicated one.
As for the question why most anime writing is so different from American animation writing, it's probably a cultural thing, like others people have posted above, but I'm not gonna get into that. Karate classes are about as close as I've ever gotten to japanese culture, so I'll leave that to people who actually know something about it. [Wink]

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OFFBEAT
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Actually.. I was thinking themes as well...

Most anime stinks in the script dept. I chalked it up to poor translation.. but typically anime is full of lousy storytelling.
"... I will challenge you to a fight, and then I will fight you in a fight.. ha ha.. and you will lose and I will win and therefore be the winner because you are the looser and not the winner ha ha I will be number 1 and you will be not number 1 because I have defeated you..." (all on a held frame.. and panning bg.. quivering highlights in the eyes)

Maybe i've just seen the wrong ones. Anyone recommend ground breaking stuff i'm missing?

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OFFBEAT
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... and two words.. Tentacle. P*rn*gr*phy.
[Big Grin]

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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quote:
Maybe i've just seen the wrong ones. Anyone recommend ground breaking stuff i'm missing?


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ApeLad
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quote:
(all on a held frame.. and panning bg.. quivering highlights in the eyes)

I think this is soo typical of the anime that makes it to american kids TV. My local library has someone on the staff who must really love anime, cuz there are tons of different series on the shelves (and not one of them has a name that makes a lick of sense. WTH is a Digi-Carat?!?). I've given a couple of them a try, but I can't make it through a whole episode usually. Too much slow zoom in and expository narration over static images. And wiggling eye glistening stuff.
But I realize this must surely be the bottom of the anime barrel, or no one would be a fan.
I'll give your recommendations a try. And I have a date with Howl's Moving Castle this weekend. I hope it doesn't step on me.

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ApeLad
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Offbeat,here's a shirt for you.
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Caracal
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Omnigon you nailed it simply and directly as far as the general level of US TV animation, but theres a little more to it too. Jennifer mentioned Invader Zim which is childrens programming but is very creative, very innovative story wise and great design and not an anime style at all. I like a lot of the writing on the current crop of CN designer shows too although Im really getting tired of the whole Flash animation style. (Another reason to like Invader Zim)

We also have some pretty impressive animation story and art in the DC lineage starting with Bruce Timms Batman.

I think as far as action adventure tho the better Anime TV series are unbelivably well staged and exciting to look at and have complex themes we wouldnt touch. In some cases this means they can be terribley slow paced too as several people have mentioned here. But I'm willing to put up with that to a degree.

Here in the US dramatic action adventure is dead as far as I can see. I wish we could do a Cowboy Bebop or a Samuri 7 or a Ghost in the Shell. Fantastic art, great characters and sophisitcated storyline and conflict, These properties are hugely popular in the US but no american studios will try any thing comparable.

Instead we get Treasure Planet!

Cheers

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ApeLad
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quote:
Here in the US dramatic action adventure is dead as far as I can see.
I dunno, DC, Marvel, and Dark Horse are attempting to transition some of their comic book properties into animated shows. I know these aren't traditional "dramatic action adventures" but still, but they aren't exactly comedies either.
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Joris
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"I especially like Kiki's Delivery Service and The Cat Returns."

I've not seen many anime films, but The Cat Returns is one of the few I saw. In an empty cinema, even.

And to be honest, I thought the story was horrible. It just seems to get stuck so many times, but then they'll find a secret trapdoor under the buffet table, so the story can continue again. I'm really having a hard time to buy these sudden plot twists, just like the ending at Howl's Moving Castle. And while Howl was interesting enough to take the weak ending for granted, it really ruined The Cat Returns for me, to a point where I just could do nothing else and laugh at it with my pals (the cinema was empty anyway..).

Is there something I miss in this style of story telling. Am I too much used to western storytelling, where basicly every plot point is so well integrated in the whole concept, that it becomes boring, and leaves nothing over to your imagination?
Sometimes it feels like we take story way too serious, and just don't dare to to not only think out of the box, but throw it away. I can only praise anime for it's total wacky and unconventional ideas, which indeed are a pleasure to watch in animation. But that's not story.

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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quote:
Is there something I miss in this style of story telling. Am I too much used to western storytelling, where basicly every plot point is so well integrated in the whole concept, that it becomes boring, and leaves nothing over to your imagination?
Maybe. I grew up reading wild fairy tales and myths, so The Cat Returns never seemed out-of-line to me. Its storytelling is also fantastic, so that helps.

Plus, I love cats, so I'm a bit biased. [Big Grin]

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-FP-
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No one has mentioned the quintessential anime PERFECT HAIR FOREVER. So, I'll mention it: PERFECT HAIR FOREVER. Leave it to Willams Street to do it better than the Japanese. Also I get a big kick out of BOBOBOBOBOBOBOBOBOBO, but I couldn't tell you what it was about. I just like it. SUPER MILK CHAN left me a bit cold. And wet. The various incarnations of DRAGON BALL are killer, although I never see them in order and I never know which Go-What and Trunkz are grownups or babies or whatever, but who cares. Fight scenes in which planets are split apart are cool. It's neat the way characters can be evil bastids and kill thousands of people, but later they turn good and befriend the heroes so all is forgiven.
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Noogy
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quote:
Maybe i've just seen the wrong ones. Anyone recommend ground breaking stuff i'm missing?
Check out Haibane Renmei as well. Incredibly unique and beautifully done, it'll hook you in the first episode.

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-Dean Dodrill

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toonstruck
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I just don't get anime. I've had friends try to convince me why it is so great. It isn't for me. I get extremely bored and find myself daydreaming within a few minutes. To each their own.
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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
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quote:
I just don't get anime. I've had friends try to convince me why it is so great. It isn't for me. I get extremely bored and find myself daydreaming within a few minutes. To each their own.
Heh. I've had tough luck trying to convince some friends that Disney animated features are worth watching. To each their own, indeed.

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Noogy
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I love animation in all its forms, and story tends to matter less to me than style.

Sometimes I get into moods where I want to watch nothing but vintage Disney films. Sometimes I can't stand that stuff and only want anime. And, very rarely, I get in the mood for a CG flick (but not often).

The problem is that people forget that there are a LOT of different styles within each culture. I think most of you who don't like anime have only seen what has been put on the air, which tends to cater to teenage boys. That's an unfair assessment, as it'd be like judging all american animation based on what's shown on Cartoon Network. Ugh.

You look at Disney... take something like Toot, Whistle, Plunk and Boom. It's very unique, and not at all what you would associate with your average Disney short.

The same goes for anime. There is some beautiful stuff out there, but you won't really find it by watching cartoon programming. There's more to anime than just action films and pornography.

Here's a random selection of anime I love:

Read or Die - A three-part OAV series, comparable to X-men. Mostly action, with an over the top story.

Haibane Renmei - An anime about angels. Incredibly fresh, and it totally inspired me the first time I saw it.

Inuyasha - A bit more mainstream, and takes a little while to get going, but there are some fantastic character things going on in that show. Good action as well.

Cromartie High - Absolutely ridiculous show, almost proud of the fact that the animation is kept to a minimal.

Kogepan - A series of shorts, not more than a few minutes each, about a burnt piece of bread. Definitely for younger kids, but I love it. All done in a colored pencil technique.

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-Dean Dodrill

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Noogy
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However, I will add (keeping on topic) that I do not think most anime is better written than american animation. I just think they are open to more ideas, particularly stories with a mature angle. Not mature as in violence, sex, etc, but intellectually.

Yes, most of it is derivitive, stupid, or simply a clone of something else. But that's the same situation here.

There's only so many ways you can rewrite a story.

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-Dean Dodrill

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