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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » Saturday July 15 World Premeire (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Saturday July 15 World Premeire
miracle_sets
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WWW.4EverDisney.com main page article is now showing the first published/posted actual page from the production "workbook" layout of their Miracle Mouse proposed animated feature.

8 days until the World Premeire of their first moments of the Miracle Mouse first film-clip.

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miracle_sets
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Hello Animation Nation,
JUST 2 MORE DAYS!
Just a reminder that the World Premeire of the first moments from our Miracle Mouse proposed 2D feature will be unveiled this Friday at 12 midnight on www.4EverDisney.com We hope you will all be viewing this piece THIS WEEKEND.

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Noogy
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I'll be there [Wink]

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-Dean Dodrill

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knowledge
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got my popcorn popped and ready!
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miracle_sets
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MIRACLE MOUSE HAS ARRIVED!

You can veiw him NOW at www.4EverDisney.com

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Kevin
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Nice work. I have to say I was bored by the very long lead in to the animated clip. I think that portion could have been a small fraction of its current length.

My impression of the animation was that it was nicely done, but I don't think that's enough to put butts in theater seats. You're limited by Miracle Mouse's design, which is both dated and uninteresting. And I need to SEE the miracles happening, rather than being lectured about them. MM went right into a hard sell, and his hard sell wasn't helped by it being an unadorned cliche. The entire sequence felt geared towards toddlers, yet I think it was even too pedantic for that demographic.

Having done 2-d animation, I recognize the incredible amount of work that went into the sequence, but I've also worked on lots of movies where a ton of extreme talent and labor was wasted on weak characters and faulty premises. I hate to be so harsh, but those are my frank impressions.

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Eric Hedman
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Beautiful technically and artisticly.
Song is too busy.
But the intention seems good.

Such a song has to show Miracle Mouses development.
He has to sing about when he was un happy and learning to see the miracles in the world made him happier and helps him to see the beauty in life.
Otherwise its not what I think y'alls want to accomplish.

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http://www.radiodismuke.com
20's-30's music

Come see my Second Life Stuff
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chilispoon/128/80/39

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-FP-
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I think the animation looked technically solid, but it was a little hard to tell. The bitrate of the posted movie was pretty low, and it was encoded at 15 frames per second, so there was some playback jerkiness. It's probably not the best way to show off your animators' hard work. There was 9 minutes of introduction for 1.5 minutes of animation. A shorter file - featuring the cartoon and fewer talkin heads - with a higher bitrate and higher frame rate would show the work better, and it wouldn't increase your bandwidth usage.

My tastes and sensibilities lean way in other directions, so I won't comment on the music or general feel of the cartoon.

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toonstruck
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Out of curiousity, who is the intended audience for this clip? Is it potential investors, animation fans, animation professionals, or something else?

I agree with Kevin about the long intro. And technically speaking, the audio levels were a little inconsistent. I had to turn up my speakers to hear what the people were saying to only get blasted out when the audio from the animated piece started. Not a really big deal, but it would make improve the presentation imo. [Smile]

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Anim8tUSA
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Is this a joke man? I really don't get it. The intro was way too long and boring. The animation was good enough for what it was. The backgrounds didn't go with the characters. The scenes didn't link together. Over all I think it was a big mess. I am sorry but this will not get you investors and from what I see of the book, it is more of the same. You really need to take a step back and the advice of the professionals you hired. What was that terrible song? I am still cringing from it! Did you hire a professional lyricists and composer? I am surprised you think this is going to get you more money. I think you have many delusions. I don't mean to be harsh, just truthful.
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blackmocco
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You lost me at the intro. Give me my nine minutes back!!!

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"...and it was here, in this blighted place, he learned to live again..."

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oogieboogie
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Definitely agree with the audio comment. Couldn't hardly hear the people, and got blasted by the animation.

The rate on the animation was too jerky, but it looked ok.

The issue is with the concept at it's base. I don't care about a house building mouse, and if this is an introduction, you really haven't given me a reason to. I'm not sure the world "Miracle" could have been inserted more times in 90 seconds. It really was like being whacked with the obvious club, if you know what I mean. And saying "chum" repeatedly, does not necessarily hearken back to the 50s.

I'll repeat what I've said before. Lose the hat (I don't want to look at your logo fo 60 minutes), lose the focus on houses. You'll win more with a story about a mouse, who happens to make a house occasionally, than a house building mouse, who occasionally does something else.

Congrats to the team for getting the boards, books and animation together, though.

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Ganklin
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intro was a bit long but was obviously geared towards potential investors who may not be aware of the animation process.

i thought the animation was very well done. nice solid work. the material itself is not my cup of tea, but i think if its storyline moves along at a brisk pace, kids'll like it. the only danger i see from the clip is the haevy preachyness. you don't have to hit an audience over the head to get your point across. less is more remember.

looks good so far. good luck!

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http://fsummers.blogspot.com/
www.shamoozal.com

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knowledge
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can you also offer it as a WMA and/or REAL file?
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Matt Wilson
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Derivative, poor design, lacking in conflict, people who can't sing in key... yep, you have a future in the Christian video industry.
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starla30
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Mm, I'm afraid I have to agree with the general consensus here. There's some good technical artistry here but I was really expecting better quality animation as you keep saying you have Disney animators.

The message is also VERY limited to little kids, and probably only little kids who are used to Christian videos, definitely not the average kid I know. So you are allready steering clear of the general Disney audience, at least the audience of the old Disney films you say you are inspired by. Those films appealed to people of all ages. This reminded me more of Care Bears or My Little Pony or something. Please don't take this as harsh criticism. Just trying to be constructive.

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MICROPHONE JONEZ
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Stop name-dropping Disney at every turn. It's so unprofessional. Seriously. EVERY American studio has ex-Disney people working for them. Please lose the Disney fetish (including the Disney-News-Website) and learn to stand on your own accomplishments.

The clip was way too short to tell where this film is going to go, but it doesnt look like much fun. I felt like I was covered in sugary goo at the end. If you really want a great 50's throwback feel to your work, watch Iron Giant. Then watch it again. Then again. Then again. Then watch Iron Giant again. Then watch your piece. Then go back to the drawing board.

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Noogy
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quote:
yep, you have a future in the Christian video industry.
Just as I'm gaining respect for my fellow board members, I read something like this. Poor taste.

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-Dean Dodrill

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Striker
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I have to agree with Noogy. At least a bit. We really have to applaud Tom's hard work and dedicaton to what he's doing. Most of the criticism on here doesn't seem very constructive at all. It seems like everyone just wants to see Tom fail. Personally I'm hoping Tom is able to see where he's falling short on his production and turn this movie into something really great. Perhaps we could keep the insults to ourselves.

The thing is though Tom, a good majority of the animators on this board do have quite a bit of experience and expertise and I believe you should listen to them more, if you can see past the insults [Smile] IMHO you really do need to look at the old features (or new ones i.e. Iron Giant) and ask yourself what made those pictures so great. Really analyse the story structures and characters. Also you have to ask yourself why Walt never made a full length feature starring Mickey Mouse or any of the 'gang'. It seems that it's popular opinion that having characters that are happy happy happy all the time can't hold a feature film. You need conflict, both internal and external and you need some serious depth in your characters. The biggest thing you need to reach for is to have your audience sypathise with your characters. What is there to sympathise with when everyones happy and singing about miracles?
Just be careful that your movie doesn't turn into something that would work better as a Saturday morning cartoon. [Smile]

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Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.
- Thomas Dewar

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blackmocco
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I applaud the dedication as much as anyone who puts in hard work on a project but I don't feel the criticism here hasn't been constructive. Tom wanted opinions and he's getting them. Unfortunately, most of it's not positive but that doesn't mean it isn't constructive too. There's no point sugar-coating comments because than that doesn't give Tom anything to consider. Clearly, as judging by the opinions of many professionals here who have some experience in the animation industry, (Something Tom has often admitted he doesn't have) Tom's project is not working as well as it could. If he chooses to listen to some of the advice here and address these problems, chances are, he'll improve his project. How is that not constructive...?

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"...and it was here, in this blighted place, he learned to live again..."

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Floyd Bishop
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The first comment that usually comes up, and Tom never pays any attenti nto apparently, is to take out all the Disney references and knock-offs. If I want to watch a Disney movie, I'll go watch a Disney movie.

What makes your film different? Why should we care about these characters?

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Floyd Bishop
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tstevens
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Ya'll don't quite get the business portion of this. Disney is a selling point: if you are trying to get people to invest in a product you use known quantities that the public can understand. People on the ouside of the industry associate people who worked for Disney as being "exceptional". I agree that some of the Disney references are a bit much, but I also have to concede that it appears to be working for Mr. Hignite.

As for depth in character, ya'll are reading way to much into this. Miracle Mouse shouldn't be anymore complex than Winnie the Pooh. This is also targeted towards kids and families. It's about morality on a very, very basic level.

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http://www.foogersnarts.blogspot.com

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Anim8tUSA
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I agree with Blackmocco on this, we shouldn't sugar coat any of this. I don't agree that the "disney" name dropping is helping Tom at all. It is childish and no the general public is not that stupid, they can see a difference. I also happen to know for a fact that he doesn't have any "Disney animators" he has an ex clean up key who is doing a great job as a first time character animator, a rough inbetweener and a guy from Cal Arts doing the animation. He is using the term "Disney animator" to describe his entire team. He also lies about their experience, or he "pushes the truth" as far as he can without getting sued. This is very dangerous. He will not get investors by lying and pretending to be what he is not. (He should be aware that Disney could go after him at any given moment for the Disney website, the blatant copy of Mickey, the font he uses, the castle, everything.)
That being said, I liked what someone said about every studio in America (and a lot in Europe) all having ex Disney people working there. No one is riding on the Disney name like Tom does.
I am not wanting to see Tom fail, why would anyone want that? I would like to see him succeed but he won't if he keeps making all the Disney references and not concentrating on a good solid story. I don't care if it is Iron Giant or Winnie the Pooh, just be your own studio. The repeating of "Miracle" all the time is way too much for me. I have the right to say that.
I hope this helps Tom see the light, but I suspect that it won't. Three people have already jumped ship, and one let go, with no relocation pay back, what does that tell us?
Be reasonable everyone, this is a forum for honest opinions not for arse kissing and sugar coating.

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tstevens
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O.K. - Let's all stand back and take a breath...

Most of the opinions and attiudes being expressed in this discussion seem to emphasize why so few animators are able to go into business and stay in business.

In general, marketing is often more about illusion than it is about reality. Or as my grandpa use to say "It's the sizzle - not the steak!"

I've read all of the bios on the Miracle site and I agree that Tom is telling more of a whale-tale when the reality might before more of a fish story. WHO CARES! As a long as he is not out to hurt anyone, and he pays his bills, then just let him go.

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http://www.foogersnarts.blogspot.com

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tstevens
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"Three people have already jumped ship, and one let go, with no relocation pay back, what does that tell us?"

I couldn't resist this one. Since when has anyone offered relocation pay-back! Some of Ya'll are living in un-reality out in LA. If you get laid off that's tough. However, your employers shouldn't have to pay for things like that. I was pretty close to laughter when I heard "re-location" pay. It is as though people think employers should have some sort of mandate to still compensate them after being let go.

Self reliance is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

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http://www.foogersnarts.blogspot.com

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Noogy
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Tstevens, thank you for being the voice of reason.

Tom, my hats off to you for actually 'creating' something. Every artist I come across has 'something' they plan on pitching, or something that's 'in the works'. And you know what they say about opinions.

Miracle studios is actually making it happen. As an indie myself I have to say that stands for something. And it's being made right here in the States.

Sure, the style may not rock everyone's boat, and why should it? Granted, there are some very good points made in this thread about improving an already promising idea, but we have to remember that we are fans of animation. Obviously we will be some of the toughest critics around, particularly when the product seems to skew young.

Tom, if you're still reading this thread, know that some of us stand behind your efforts. Sure, you need a pretty thick skin to wade through the criticism, and some of it may be warranted. You may even learn a few things that will indeed improve your product. But remember, it is 'yours', and I applaud a singular vision. As our humble administrator puts it, keep creating!

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-Dean Dodrill

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Anim8tUSA
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to tstevens, I was just pointing out that these people moved all the way over there for what they were promised to be many years and they left in less than a year, that is expensive. I don't think they would have done that if it was so great, or Tom was treating them well. Do you really? I am not talking about spoiled Disney people either, but for someone to choose unemployment and a pile of debt to get out from Tom's studio? That sends a message. Also he has hurt people with his lying, fabricating, and the way he treats his staff. While I understand your need to stick up for him, he is not the saint he pretends to be, and I think some of us are all just sick of all the Disney Disney Disney Disney Disney Disney Disney Disney Disney, and the Christian crap, if it were true great, but all indications show otherwise. I am not trying to hurt Tom, he wanted out opinions, he got them. I hope he succeeds, but I just don't see if a 5th of his staff walked out before the looming layoffs hit at their own costs, that says something pretty loud about the type of place he is running. In this day in age most people are just happy to have work? That speaks to me much louder than "A Christian based company" "Disney animators". Tstevens I commend your rushing to his defense, but you should also look at the big picture here.
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knowledge
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Anim8 can you elaborate? People have obviously given you details. Their situations won't be a surprise to Tom since he knows who left and who he let go. I imagine Tom will address all of this stuff in his next post here.
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BeltaneTheBat
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If this is true that people uprooted their family and moved to a place where they were offered work for years to come only to find themselves back on the street less than a year later than I think everybody here would agree that that stinks and is not 'Christian' at all.
I laughed at the remark from Matt Wilson, and if you have any sense of humor you would too. Christians get very touchy-feely about remarks like that. I wonder why?! Matt was merely comparing all the other animated Christian efforts and I think he is quite right: this example fits right in there. In the States there seems to be a big market for this kind of stuff and there are a few people who have made money out of that (which is in an odd way against the principle, or am I wrong?).
I was once approached to direct a $50m dollar movie about the life of Christ. I had several meetings with a certain rich branch of Born Again Christians who wanted me do be part of their project. I told them that I am not religiously active at all but that I am nevertheless interested in making a movie about this story, which is the 'biggest story ever told'. And from a film-makers point of view this could be a great challenge.
In a very nice way the very nice people in charge told me that I could only be the director if I was to join their club. I declined. The movie never happened in the end, because they couldn't raise enough funds from their TV evangelism above keeping the main guy's Rolls Royce car park in order.
This group was supporting a man that at one point was running for presidency. The religious America is a vast group, there is lots of money to be made and lots of people riding that horse, don't be fooled.
I have no idea if Tom is one of them. He certainly is dedicated to his beliefs and he certainly has no scrouples to build his vision on that, if artisticly orientated or monetary, or both.
Christians will always have the argumment that most anyhting is okay if it helps to spread the word of god. And if they becomme wealthy by doing so, that's okay because it will allow them to be charitable.
Now to the clip:
Yes, the intro is too long, but then again, it will appeal to Tom's target resources.
The animation and the design is adequate. Everyone did what they got paid for. But that does not make a good piece of animation.
Storywise? Bad start. Don't talk about it, show it!
But then again, you can't tell a movie by it's selling piece.

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.
http://umbackagain.blogspot.com

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toonstruck
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After re-reading Tom's posts, I actually don't see anywhere that he is asking for our opinions here on AN. Granted, it is natural for us to give them whether he asks or not, however, I think some of the comments are bordering on libel and maybe a step back should be taken.

As far as people spending a lot of money to move across the country. That happens all the time. These people should of known they were taking a risk and part of the outcome rests on their shoulders.

Things may not be moving as fast as Tom had hoped (I have no idea what the situation is or was over there) and because of that, game plans change and unfortunately business decisions have to be made that won't make everyone happy. At times, people have to be let go or "promises" have to be comprimised.

I may disagree with some of the direction Tom is taking with the use of the Disney name or the similiarity between the two companies and content, but I admire what he is trying to do and know the challenges that come from building something like this.

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BeltaneTheBat
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Even though you should!

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.
http://umbackagain.blogspot.com

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Striker
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Wow, I can't believe the petty garbage I'm hearing. I'm going to rant for a minute.
Giving good, honest critique to his film is fine, but attacking what he believes seems totally unwarranted to me. By offering to show us this clip, he knows he's going to get some harsh critiques from us here. It's happened before so he knows what to expect. To me that takes alot of guts considering the shelacking he's been given in the past on this board. But he doesn't have to answer to anyone about what he believes. I'm not exactly a practising Christian but I can't stand by and listen to people come down on Tom because he is one. And as far as laying someone off being 'un-Christian', what does that mean? Because he's a christian he can't treat his business like everyone else? Do you even remotely know the circumstances of the layoff(s)? Did you think that because of what happened at Disney that no one would ever get laid off again??
I will admit that it seems a bit odd that 3 people have left Tom's studio, but I would really like to know the reasons that happened before slamming Tom.

Anyway, yes, I think Tom's got the right idea, he's just got to see the bigger picture. If he wants to make a film 'like they used to make' then he better study those same films and find out what made them so good.

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Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open.
- Thomas Dewar

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blackmocco
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Agreed. This is no place to discuss the man's religious beliefs, simply the animation footage he's shown us.

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"...and it was here, in this blighted place, he learned to live again..."

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BeltaneTheBat
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Who attacked what he believes?

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Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.
http://umbackagain.blogspot.com

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miracle_sets
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Hello Animation Nationers,
Thank you all for your thoughts and intrest in this first small piece of animation from our proposed Miracle Mouse feature. I usually answer your forum inquires one by one but because so many responses have been registered, I will try to simplify some blanket responses.

To cover the "religious Christain" and the "if Tom's such a great guy then why are folks leaving" as well as the "bringing folks to Wisconsin with multi-year promises of employment" most of this has already been extensively covered in previous posts of recent. You may wish to read them because the previous responses still hold true. One key reminder is that everyone who is or will be under my employe is given a written staff manual which clearly states that everyone is given a 90 day probationary period until which, there is no guarantee of prolonged employment. I always try my best to treat everyone with respect whether under my employe or not. If anyone can honestly detail one specific circumstance where I have not been a good employer or person, please let that person state their side so that I might take corrective action,apologize, or explain my side of the story of which a wise person recently said, there are always 2 sides.

Your commentaries about the length of the pre-show are well taken and we have already adjusted this to be shorter. I am not sure whether the website has yet been corrected to reflect this. The target audience of the project is 4 to 8 years old(plus/minus). This musical sequence comes early in the feature and is meant to answer the question as to why our main character is called Miracle Mouse, show his relationship to his friend, show his stage setting, establish a few secondary characters for later in the story, and to show a bit of his daily work routine. What has been shown so far, does not show all of that but when the 5 minutes of this sequence are complete, it will.

The characters are not very fully explored in this short piece, but will be developed as the story unfolds. As for the "Disney" connection, this too has been discussed at length in previous postings and with the good amount of press we have recieved both locally and nationally as evidence, this seems to have certainly been the right way to go for now. This too may change in the future and I am always open to good debate on the merits of any idea, we just may not always agree.

My sincere apologies for not answering all of your inquires/comments and my most sincere thanks for all of you input, it does help much more than it will ever hurt.

Blessings
Tom Hignite
The Miracle Companies Inc.

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Anim8tUSA
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I agree with the last few posts, and I never slammed his beliefs, or I didn't mean it to come off that way. I just think he is shoving it in our faces too much.
No I can't elaborate about what I heard about the goings on there, because that would be unfair to Tom because it is all third party. I think it says enough that they left.
I also agree that everyone takes risks when they move for work, and yes people get laid off, but I know that people asked Tom specifically about this and he did promise at least two years, not a year like he said in an earlier post. I am not trying to hurt Tom, but I just wish he could be honest with people. There is no shame in telling people, "if all goes well you can stay a few years, but I don't know if it will". I believe he said what he needed to say, or what he thought people wanted to hear to get them up there. Also I think he took advantage of the animation world right now, and knew these people were in dire need of work. That is a real shame.
As for the work, I didn't like it. Whether he asked for our opinions or not, he wouldn't be on the board at all if he didn't want constant praise, so the opposite happens as well. Deal with it.

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Anim8tUSA
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"Three people have already jumped ship, and one let go, with no relocation pay back, what does that tell us?"

I couldn't resist this one. Since when has anyone offered relocation pay-back! Some of Ya'll are living in un-reality out in LA. If you get laid off that's tough. However, your employers shouldn't have to pay for things like that. I was pretty close to laughter when I heard "re-location" pay. It is as though people think employers should have some sort of mandate to still compensate them after being let go.

Self reliance is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

tstevens, this is true for sure, but he promised this. I for sure wouldn't move all my shite from LA to WI for only a few months of work without some guarantee. I think people are self reliant, but there is a huge difference to that and being lied to. I don't think anyone there expected re-location home, but like I said in other posts Tom promised long term employment. He even told one person, "If I didn't sell one more home I have enough money to keep this going and buy three more animators for the next two years" When he was asked about the longevity of the studio. Business is business and I agree that if layoffs are needed than do it, but than don't make promises that are based on non truths. Sorry if this is harsh, I just don't like it when people are taken advantage of or hurt.

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Charles
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This thing has become something personal that goes beyond the immediate purpose of the thread, which is a constructive critique of his studio's debut animation. If you don't like it then you don't like it. I don't know what the particular politics or policies of his studio are, but some of these comments are borderline harrassment. If anyone at the Wisconsin studio has a grievance based upon first hand experience they're welcome to come here and educate the community. Otherwise let it go. At least the man made an extraordinary commitment and a sincere attempt, which is more than can be said for many. And for that Tom deserves a thumbs up. Why not give a little credit and a positive word where's its due.

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Anim8tUSA
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Charles,
You are right. I am very sorry for what I said. You can remove my comments if you like. I am just frusterated with my own problems at the studio I have been working for. I have no inside info for why those people left.
Tom I am sorry, and I hope that this doesn't hurt you at all.
I do agree with everyone that you are trying to do something great, and I was wrong for saying anything more than just about the work.
Good luck

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SoleilSmile
IE # 120
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Okeee. No my thing, but, parents have been waiting for Disney to go back to it roots and I think with this project they've gotten their wish. I feel the characters talk too much. I would prefer th appeaance of an antagonist be it a mudslide or something that doesn't speak to happen so the protagonist characters can react to IT and spur dialogue that way instead of a beautiful day in the neighborhood. Then again, perhaps parents would like a cartoon about a beautiful day in the neighborhood. Afterall, this film isn't the world according to SolielSmile.

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HipChick Comics and Animatress Blog

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http://www.animatress.blogspot.com/

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