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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » Fox and the Hound Sequel (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Fox and the Hound Sequel
Methuselah
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The "little bird", Dinky(if I remember the character's name correctly) was animated by Cliff Nordberg--one of the Disney "old guard", indeed(and one of the great, unsung animators who never got the attention he deserved simply as he wasn't ever on the animation review board-i.e, the "9 old men").
[bow]
He died before the film was released.

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EustaceScrubb
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quote:
he "little bird", Dinky(if I remember the character's name correctly) was animated by Cliff Nordberg
Thanks for the additional info., Methuselah .
(Where did I get it in to my head that Jerry Rees and/or Musker did the bird ? ) I was hoping someone who worked on the film might chime in on this.

Agree with you about the great Cliff Nordberg. A very fine animator , often over-shadowed by the emphasis on the "9".

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Semaj
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quote:
On Disney direct-to-video sequels:
I realize Walt Disney would've despised the idea, but some of his most memorable stories would've worked better than others, especially when you consider that there were sequels to the source material, often done by the creators themselves. While making a sequel to something like, Sleeping Beauty, would be unfathomable, I think exploring the possibility of sequels to films like Tarzan, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, The Rescuers, Aladdin, Hercules, Lilo & Stitch and many others, certainly leave room for a continuation to their adventures. It all boils down to how well-made these sequels and stories are and if they're really worth being told. The quality of the animation is finally there, it seems. They just need to make sure the sequels' stories are just as good as their original. Toy Story 2 is proof that it can be done.

Interestingly, the original Alice in Wonderland story was a two-part novel. And Disney had more than enough trouble making the first film.

As I said was Disney's case with sequels, it seems like they make sequels just to piss off their hardcore fans. [frown]

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Ben Burgess
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"The Fox and the Hound", 1981,
This was my first total animated feature film experience from start to end that I know allot about with expertise.

The small bird,"DINKY" early in the production was assigned to and animated by Jerry Rees, who would show us the live action films of small birds he studied for reference.

On the third floor of the old ANIMATION BUILDING were two big screening theaters that could hold up to 80-100 people. Every other month the ANIMATION DEPT. would have seminars to update the staff on the feature's development. This is where Jerry Rees give us a talk on his analysis of the "bird film study research" to aid in the caricaturization of these crazy birds.

Cliff Nordberg, a Supervising Animator on the film developed the smaller wise guy "DINKY" bird and the taller lug headed "BOOMER" bird, voice Paul Winchell for this film until like what was mentioned previously he died of a massive heart attack in later part of 1980. Or, near the end of the RUFF animation work completed for the film.

I know this in particular because I got to work with LeRoy Cross directly on allot of Cliff's work. An interesting thing is that Cliff animated the highest amount of footage weekly on the "FOOTAGE REPORT" in RUFF animation. Nobody came close to his output, my records of all this is in storage.

There was allot of footage to animate of these two birds, which were primarily the comic relief in the film, a cinema story devise that is essential. When Cliff died there was a fair amount of loose RUFF animation drawings to clean up in assistant animation. I got to work on allot of these scenes.

In Clean-Up I remember working with Betty Isis Thompson who designed the clean up Butter Fly wings, the funny Caterpillar payoff at the end of the film. This was one of Cliff's animation final scenes that were very indicative just a path of action and loose up or down sketches not at all on model, just the idea and timing. The action and dialogue antics match the X-Sheet frame by frame.

I don't care what anyone else says about this period in time at Disney; this was a very positive time and you could see the animation history unfolding in front of you especially during this key film production.
[Smile]

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[IMG] http://www.creativeheads.net/jsmedia.aspx?j=fccfc9010e&spi=0&mid=5163&direct=1[/IMG][/URL]

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SANTANNI
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Thanks Ben and Methusalem, for the info. Cliff Nordberg was a great animator indeed. I know a lot about him except that he did the little bird.
Here is an idea for a book: (John Canemaker, are you reading this?) A book about the the other great animators that no one hears about such as Cliff, Hal Ambro, Bob Carlson, and many others. Look at the credits and you see there were many others than the 9 Old Men.

And I agree with Ben. When they were making Fox and a Hound animation was still considered an art form and it was very special to be an animator, specially a Disney animator.

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EustaceScrubb
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Now that's what I'm talkin' about ! Thank you , Ben Burgess. I was hoping you would chime in on this because I knew you are at least one person here on this forum who worked on the film.

I'm glad to know that my memory wasn't totally off-base in recalling Jerry Rees as one of the animators responsible for "Dinky" the small bird comic relief in The Fox and the Hound.

However, could you clarify something for me from your previous comments :

quote:

The small bird,"DINKY" early in the production was assigned to and animated by Jerry Rees, who would show us the live action films of small birds he studied for reference.

On the third floor of the old ANIMATION BUILDING were two big screening theaters that could hold up to 80-100 people. Every other month the ANIMATION DEPT. would have seminars to update the staff on the feature's development. This is where Jerry Rees give us a talk on his analysis of the "bird film study research" to aid in the caricaturization of these crazy birds.

Cliff Nordberg, a Supervising Animator on the film developed the smaller wise guy "DINKY" bird and the taller lug headed "BOOMER" bird, voice Paul Winchell for this film until like what was mentioned previously he died of a massive heart attack in later part of 1980.

Does this mean that Cliff Nordberg started off as the lead Supervising Animator for both Dinky and Boomer , but then Jerry Rees inherited the assignment of leading on Dinky after Cliff died or do you mean that Rees and Nordbeg were splitting the animation of Dinky and Boomer prior to Cliff's death ?
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Ben Burgess
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This is a ranting reply to Dave N. here (aka E.S.), of course not to get confused with Filmation's "Pinocchio and the Emperor of the Night", we'll stay on track here.

You are correct about Jerry Rees animating "DINKY", the smaller wise guy bird, which was from EARLY ON in the production and also "Boomer" the dumbbell bird, SPLIT UP in various sequences with Cliff; this was way BEFORE his unfortunate passing away which was possibly in late 1980 and the film came out in 1981. There was soooo much footage of these birds to animate and even more frantic cleaning up. "Big Mama", had a ton of footage through out this film too by a number of animators. Any time you have wings on characters you need a follow up crew big time.

Cliff Nordberg, Supervising Animator, developed and created both of these funny bird characters antics for this film. Cliff was so experienced with the Disney formula that he could map out and animate the character acting in his own head, so he was free to just primarily draw up footage, just crank it out!

And, because Jerry was one of the new hotshots out of CAL ARTS it was only fitting for the front office to assign him with Cliff to help develop the acting for character Dinky, which was the primary character in the scene usually, Boomer was secondary and reacted to Dinky.
So, Jerry researched allot of film from the Disney Archives and Disney nature films, which he eventually showed to the rest of the production crew at special screenings.
[Smile]
Come to find out allot of animators secretly study films either animation or live action for acting ideas for various characters. Every time a film starts up every director says "Hey, check out such and such film and that animator for that character or live action section of some particular film.
[Smile]
So, when you walk into some directing animators office he will be shuffling a bunch of papers under his desk while he is whistling and looking up at the ceiling, like don't look here.
[Smile]

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EustaceScrubb
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Thanks again, Ben , for providing the background information on a very interesting time period in the Disney Studio.

(I'm working at a place with Barry T. and Rusty S. and I grill them for similar info. whenever I get the chance . I'm still an animation fan boy at heart , I guess. [Big Grin] )

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Scarlett
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The ones I worked on were usually budgeted at 25million+(as opposed to what other studios pay for DTVs - 5 mill and under)
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"Interesting. That would explain why Disney cheapqules look more polished than other DVD projects. Still, the cheapqules are a few steps down from Disney's theatrical efforts"

That's the point! They're not meant to be released theatrically. They're basically babysitter movies. They're so you can plop your kid down and be rid of them for an hour and a half. At least, that's what some people who've worked on them have told me. They're cute in some instances, but they'll never be considered 'Disney Classics'.

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englishboy
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click and weap:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0-Xxr4JnF60

Perhaps the worst all-time line in Disney animation...
Tod to Copper: "Ever since you've joined that band you've changed."

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www.toddjamespierce.com

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knowledge
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OMG Englishboy, how could you do that to me!!! I just revisited my 2 hour old pizza!

That was HORRIBLE!!

Maybe at next years Grammy's Madonna can join a live virtual performance by that dog band.

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englishboy
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I tried to warn you. I said, "click and weap."

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www.toddjamespierce.com

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Christian
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quote:
"Interesting. That would explain why Disney cheapqules look more polished than other DVD projects. Still, the cheapqules are a few steps down from Disney's theatrical efforts"
I wish people would understand that the cheapquels were a new phenomenon that are not to be confused with the theatrical releases. They exist (existed?) somewhere in quality between a TV show episode and a feature film. But since they did move towards feature film quality people thought Disney was saying they were on the same level but I never saw it that way.

Unfortunately it appears that this Fox and the Hound sequel is going to undo any progress that's been made in the direct-to-video realm but it may not matter if Lasseter and Catmull don't allow anymore sequels.

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Christian
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Should add that I've met a couple times with Art Stevens recently and he is very proud of the work done on Fox and the Hound. He mentioned that he thought Glen Keane did the best work on it. He also said that he was the live action inspiration for the hunter (Amos?).
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knowledge
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on IMDB I see that the Director of this crud, Jim Kammerud, is in the midst of another "classic in the making" Aristocats 2.

Does anyone know if it has been shut down now that Pixar have come on board?

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Michael W Howe
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Btw, is it just me or does it seem that the only people that seem willing to lend their name and singing talents to these DTV's, are almost always country music singers?

I keep wondering who negotiates these deals?

Yes, that clip was bad-I stopped it before it got any farther.

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"He's got three Piston Cups!"
"He did WHAT in his cup!??"

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Scotty Arsenault
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Good lord, I thought you were joking about that line...
Why don't they all ride in a bus and solve spooky mysteries, for cryin out loud?

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 -

Cartoons for the Common Man!

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knowledge
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Scotty, I almost sprayed out a gulp of coke I had just taken when I read your line! Funnnnyyyy!
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Christian
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Goober and the Ghostchasers?
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javier
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"on IMDB I see that the Director of this crud, Jim Kammerud, is in the midst of another "classic in the making" Aristocats 2."

not that jim needs defending, but people in the midwest need to eat too. and he didn't write the script either but the original "fox and the hound" wasn't an oscar winner...

and yes, "aristocats 2" was shut down.

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Matt Wilson
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When your movie shares a plot with Saved By the Bell, that may have been the time to consider a new draft or 2.


Or


8.


Oh well, at least we're at the tail end of this era of gallant shamelessness.

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Mr. Fun
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Oh lord! I think I worked on "Goober and the Ghostchasers." Yeeeech!
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Inkan
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( Hmm, this is an old thread. [Smile] )

I'm totally [Confused] by this trailer. Copper joining a dog band? I mean huh? How on Earth did they come up with that plot?? This trailer feels nothing at all like the original movie. Not even thematically. The models for Tod and Copper are bad. And the background art is bizarre. Purple water? Trees that look like they're made of plastic? Sigh. [Frown]

BTW: I think that "AristoCats" sequel has been canned, but I'm not sure. I do know why they're making it though: Marie is immensely popular in Japan. When I was there I saw whole walls covered in Marie merchandise. I never would've guessed.

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knowledge
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Javier, nothing against Jim (and his needing to feed his family) just against the crud that Disney was making these past few years. He just happened to have his name on a few of them.
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javier
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well knowlegde,

whether it was jim or somebody else directing, these sequels were gonna be made anyway by mandate of disney TV/toonz/whatever they call 'em themselves... there's only so much you can do with a small budget, shorter amount of production, b-level talent, and "creative executives" breathing down your neck. jim k. is an amazing feature quality artist but you wouldn't know it by the work he's gotta take to pay the bills and keep a studio afloat.

and by the way, i agree with people's opinions here of the trailer. it's not something i would buy or see.

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Methuselah
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These "ideas" come down from on high.
NO artist, not a good one nor the least of hacks(not that that's the classification of who's over there)would suggest such a concept in a million years.

Blame it where it lies: with whoever was in charge...probably Eisner. He never came up with a project that--surprise!--anyone under him thought--I mean, told him-stank. Apart from that, there's no idea there of any story that needs to be told,it's all marketing. Music demographic marketing. That's why the project was hatched. I am pretty sure that was the idea for the horrific "Country Bears" movie too. [puke]

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