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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » How Many AN Posters Are REALLY Professional Cartoonists? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: How Many AN Posters Are REALLY Professional Cartoonists?
Scott Shaw!
IE # 132
Member # 172

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Based on the tone and content of many recent posts here, I (and others) are starting to wonder just what percentage of ANIMATION NATION members are actual screen-credited professional cartoonists and other industry pros (current and retired), as opposed to animation journalists, students, fans or wannabees.

I'm not trying to impose some sort of caste system here, but it might be useful for each member's I.D. to include a mention of their professional (or non-professional) status.

Charles, do you have any hard figures regarding the background breakdown of AN's membership?

Aloha,

Scott!

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Vincent
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Worked on everything from New kids on the block, YIKES, to Spongebob.
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Christian
IE # 211
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I'll freely admit that in this stage of the game I'm not a professional. While I don't mind saying it I also don't want to be branded that way. And there are others who have done professional who do not currently have a paid animation job for one reason or another and they probably don't want to be branded as "Former Professionals."
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Toast
IEcm
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I'm a current pro at an animation company where I illustrate children's books based on our characters as well as occasionally contribute to the cartoons. I rarely post on AN.com though. Might be part of the problem, I'm sure.
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Andy Blazdell
IE # 150
Member # 2434

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Well, nowadays you have to be professional to even join.

Personally, I dislike these kind of posts, because they do, whether you like it or not, lead to a caste system that excludes people.

Take me for example, I'm not a cartoonist or a full-time animator - but I'm on IMDB, and I've lost count of the shows I've been credited on. Does that make my opinion more or less valid?

There's students and wannabes here who regularly have more interesting things to say than some professionals, and say it with a darn sight more courtesy too.

I think if there is a groundswell of opinion that is for an exclusive, professionals-only forum, then those people are free to start one up themselves. Maybe they exist already, and you only find out about them if they ask you to join. Like The Skulls.

But Animation Nation has been around a long time, and it has a good mix of people. Some of the nicest people can say some unpleasant things sometimes, and vice versa. It happens. We're all human. A caste system would have weakened AN as a website, in my opinion.

I actually support the new membership system, though, but mainly because it stops people having multiple accounts so they can give crap to other posters anonymously.

And as you can see, my real name and website are listed for all to peruse and judge (and boy do I get judged sometimes) - that's my choice, but I wouldn't want to impose that on others.

So to summarise, I think one should judge people by what they say, not what their resume says.

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Andy
www.celaction.com

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Jennifer Hachigian Jerrard
IE # 8
Member # 2280

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I'm a LightWave 3D artist who has worked from project to project since March of 1999. Sometimes I get screen credit, sometimes I don't...but I've always gotten paid. [Big Grin]

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OFFBEAT
IE # 39
Member # 873

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I'm a pro!
break out the membership cards!
[cheers]

oh.. speaking of which.. Scott.. what was that organization you were with last Tuesday? Or is that a secret club?

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Trondheimfan
IE # 169
Member # 2282

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What's wrong with being a student?
I'm a student. An aspiring animator. I've animated stuff that's been (or is just about to be) on tv (in my country anyway [Smile] ).
Most of it I made at an actual animation studio.

I don't think I make unnecessarily mean posts about movies, or other people here, but if I am, just tell me, and I'll try to keep it down. [Smile]

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Tekenen is schrijven en spreken tegelijk.

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pud
IE # 30
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http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0699871/

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" Your Scenes are there forever." - Ollie Johnston
http://markpudleiner.blogspot.com/

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Ravenshoe
IE # 186
Member # 783

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I'm a pro, currently story editing (and writing) a series on Cartoon Network (among others).

I'd like to suggest that the job title be listed under the individual's name. For example "Ravenshoe (Writer/Producer)".

I think that everyone is entitled to an opinion, but frankly some opinions are more informed than others. When people with no industry experience spout off about subjects they know absolutely nothing about, they should at least be honest about where they're coming from.

I'm with you on this one, Scott.

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Christian
IE # 211
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I shouldn't have opened my big mouth. I'm the least qualified person here.
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Mel Allen Sink
IE # 236
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Well, if the difference between a fanboy and a pro is $50...

Rip Off Press gave me a $100 advance for a comic book that never came out. So I'm doubly pro! [Big Grin]

Use to get paid for cartoons and illos for a Timber Ridge Outdoor and Adventure Magazine. It was a Sioux City area regional thingie. I even got $80.00 for the last issue that never came out. (Do I got the Medusa touch or what? [funny] )

Trying to do Captain Saucer and InterStellar OverDrive revivals for Work Horse Comics. Trying to draw that Studebaker flying saucer as we speak. Did a WHC logo, so far unused, that kinda looks a late Rumley, early Allis, or newer Hoyt-Clagwell.

Mainly, I'm currently an Level 11 Electronic Technician for the USPS, keeping the AFCSes, DBCSes, DIOSSes, etc, from shredding your mail more than necessary. [Big Grin]

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http://melallensink.blogspot.com

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cpdavison
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IMDB search for "Craig Davison"

None of the above people are me. I was part of an animation company that never got off the ground in Toronto, Onatrio. Did some "student animation" both cell and stop-motion. These are things I generally don't even bring up because they are such non-credentials.

quote:
Based on the tone and content of many recent posts here, I (and others) are starting to wonder just what percentage of ANIMATION NATION members are actual screen-credited professional cartoonists and other industry pros (current and retired), as opposed to animation journalists, students, fans or wannabees.
I'd be interested to know who the "others" are and what the tell-tale signs are that the "tone and content" of a posting is authored by "animation journalists, students, fans or wannabees." Hope Charles weighs in here.

(Scott - I've enjoyed your work & writing for many years now and am always interested to read your postings in this, or any other, forum.)

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Ravenshoe
IE # 186
Member # 783

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This is WAAAAY out of date, but...

imdb listing

...and I created "Freaky Stories" - but they don't have a category for 'created by'.

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roger
IE # 141
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well i understand the question... and although in the last 12 years I made a living out of illustration/graphic design/character design/web design/ game design/2d animation and 3d animation i don't know if i can call my self a pro... I am still learning every day [biggrin]

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http://www.canvas.nl

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Christian
IE # 211
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You're a pro if you make money from it.
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Eric Hedman
IE # 84
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You're also a pro if you LOSE money at it. [Wink]

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http://www.radiodismuke.com
20's-30's music

Come see my Second Life Stuff
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chilispoon/128/80/39

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roger
IE # 141
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Well Christian... i think different on that matter, because i see a lot of good stuff (especially on festifalls) that is made by peolple who can't live from what they are dooing... or get paid and i still consider them pro's

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http://www.canvas.nl

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BobV
IE # 119
Member # 392

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Well since evrybody else is IMDb'ing...


I have to agree with Scott Shaw on this one. The more posters here that are professionals or at least have professional experience, the more credibility the board has as an industry gauge and an agent for change.

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Christian
IE # 211
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I'm giving a technical definition. There IS more than one definition of the word but whether or not you make money at animation is something beyond dispute, whereas the quality of somebody's work can always be disputed. I'm not trying to pound anybody over the head here.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/p/p0582300.html

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roger
IE # 141
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Sorry Christian... I should not have replied so personally... i do get your point...

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http://www.canvas.nl

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Marcus Moore
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Idependant work primarilly, with credited TV work, though my imdb listing does not back me up on that one... I should look in to that.

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q
IE # 104
Member # 727

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my resume is on a scroll that rolls out down the road........................................................

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"Thank you. And bring it on."

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yumnoodle
IEcm
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Look, I'm not sure this is a good idea. I understand you may feel a bit overwhelmed by the amount of unprofessionals posting on this site, but I believe that just about everyone who posts has a pretty good opinion about animation and the animation industry. I have been working in the industry for over 5years as an animator/character designer/illustrator for various companies, but do I feel I need to defend myself by bringing a list out? No. I go here to this site to be able to speak to people who are interested in animation and I don't go out of my way to make sure they have a credit to thier name. I'm not trying to bag on anyone, but I believe that they are doing a good job here at AN and I feel this might not be a good idea.
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painter
IE # 173
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I'm not a pro. Was one once, but had to switch careers for stability. Now a dedicated fan and writer who hopes that his original property may someday use the talents on this board to animate.

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it's here I sit and rust amid this ruin and rancor like tire irons
toothy grills and car parts before me...

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Methuselah
IE # 148
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I don't think Scott is trying to create a hierarchy here, or an exclusionary thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think it's simple curiousity. It is for me.

I too have sometimes clicked to see if this or that person is anywhere near the business-or at least, the main hub(s) of the business. I've noticed that if I really get infuriated at a post, it's always someone who is a student or non-pro. Well, that's one of the hazards of youth, I guess. [Wink]

I've worked a long, long time, all of it in Los Angeles. Some of it on the same projects as Scott. (And while I'm on the subject-btw, Scott-I wrote my comments about a certain superdog show before I'd seen that you mentioned you worked on it. I certainly meant no offense to your work-I know what it looks like, and I'm sure the boards on that show are terrific. I have to stand by my visceral reaction to the song and character design as animated, though.)

I actually have to dispute that on average the "non" pros have a "damn sight" more courtesy in their posts than the "pros". My take has been quite the opposite. Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion. What students and kids or simply people not active in the industry don't understand is how close, how incestuous the business actually is. That people working at Pixar and people that work at studios that seem to generate a lot of animus on this board are the SAME PEOPLE. That there isn't some big red demaraction lije between "them" and "us". That while we pros have opinions and can passionately discuss projects we like and don't like, we(HOPEfully!)don't make it personal because we understand how the system works-the studio system.

That's not a slam on students or "fans"-it's just that it really does change a person(for the better, imho)to be involved in the process for years and develop a realistic(not necessarily a negatively compromising)understanding of how it all works, from development to marketing and just plain getting a job--or losing one.

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Christian
IE # 211
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This thread is certainly developing some discussion.
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Eric Hedman
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quote:
my resume is on a scroll that rolls out down the road.........
And its printed on Yellow rubber so we can spray it down and use it as a slip 'n' slide....


weeeeeeee!!!!!!

[Big Grin]

--------------------
http://www.radiodismuke.com
20's-30's music

Come see my Second Life Stuff
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chilispoon/128/80/39

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Otterslide
IE # 38
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Well one good thing comes out of this discussion, for me at least: I had no idea I even had an IMDB listing. I'll have to get it updated with a couple other animation and directing credits.

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Bryon E. Carson, Proprietor
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Eric Hedman
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quote:
... but do I feel I need to defend myself by bringing a list out?
I think Pudd just wanted people to remember he worked on the Care Bears Movie. [Big Grin]

--------------------
http://www.radiodismuke.com
20's-30's music

Come see my Second Life Stuff
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chilispoon/128/80/39

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scaredofbees
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Screen credited...no, but I make a decent living doing cartoons, animation, and graphic design for a children's web-based educational software company. I also released a "Cartooning and Animating with Flash" video tutorial last year. And finally, I spend as much free time as I can working on my own art stuff.

I do like the idea of sticking some sort of job title under people's name. It would lend credibility to people's posts and remind professionals to act as such (as representatives of their industry). I wouldn't be too worried about a student or fan's opinion being dismissed by a screen credited pro, either. All pros started out as fans and students at one time and will hopefully remember that aspect during a discussion.

Having everyone's cards out on the table may keep things more civil.

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SoleilSmile
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I'm a working professional and a student. If you don't belive it can be done ask anyone who worked on Space Jam with me. I'm darn good at multitasking.
I like the students here. They're neat. It's also nice to hear the enthusiasm form the the so called fans and wannabes. I've gotten to that stage in my career when I'm a bit jaded and bitter and seeing the posts of the non-professionals cheer me up when I lurk this board during a REALLY long day at the studio.
So there. PHHHT!
Hehe, I know I'm gonna get hell for that one.

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HipChick Comics and Animatress Blog

www.hipchickcomics.com
http://www.animatress.blogspot.com/

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OFFBEAT
IE # 39
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12 years ago I was at the gym sitting in the jacuzzi with a bunch of other members.. and this guy starts talking to me.. and he asked me what I did for a living with such a haircut (I had a blue mohawk at the time) and I lied and said I was a cartoonist..

Really I worked at subway and I submitted comic strips for syndication every 6 months. Then he was asking suspiciously if it paid the bills and where I worked.. and what strip I did.. and I told him that it wasn't my full time job.. and that I worked at subway full time. He said triumphantly like a detective solving a case.. "AH HA!.. so when someone asks what you do, you say I make sandwiches."

I know he sounds like a turd, but He was trying to help in a guy way. Even offered me a job (he owned a car dealership) if I'd cut my hair. I think he thought I was on drugs and was extending the helping hand to try and clean me up. lol

In hindsight I wish I would have taken that job. Those guys make alot of money. lol

One of my first gigs in animation was being storyboard conformist, and I was excited to get a paycheck that said "artist" on it.. so that I would have some proof that I was a professional. I got my first check and it said under job title: "Conformist"
The teller at the bank said "Conformist? what does a conformist do?" and I said "Whatever they tell me to."
[Big Grin]

If I told those stories here before I apologize. Just very funny moments of my life I like to share.

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yumnoodle
IEcm
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lol!! That's funny Offbeat. I like that story.
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Andy Blazdell
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quote:
I don't think Scott is trying to create a hierarchy here, or an exclusionary thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think it's simple curiousity.
Well, if he hadn't mentioned the "tone and content of many recent posts here", then I would agree. But it seems like the first step towards elitism.

Oh, and just to pick nits, Methuselah, I didn't actually say that 'on average the "non" pros have a "damn sight" more courtesy in their posts than the "pros"', I said that they "regularly" post with more courtesy than "some" pros. It's not the same thing. We actually agree, you're just disagreeing with something I didn't say. [Big Grin]

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Andy
www.celaction.com

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ben radd
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"sandwich artist" is still an artist ;-)

I heard glen keane talk about the time he spent living in paris. he used to take hi dog for walks and became friendly with other people walking dogs. he said they never knew he was "glen keane" to them it didn't matter he was just another nice american who spoke poor french. peoples occupations didn't matter it was who they were not what they did.

I visit my buddies in tahoe they ask me what i do i respond that i work in animation. they are like "i mean do you ski or snowboard".

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Dan P.
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Animation "professional" for the past 9 years doing mainly designs, posing and storyboards. Credits include a lot of crappy tv shows and a couple of good ones.

Oh, and I also worked on Freaky Stories for the first two seasons. [Big Grin]

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wongfei
IE # 155
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i'm a pro (12 years working on the east coast)....started out as a intern in a NYC commercial animation studio , that eventually became MTV Animation, where i started out doing ink and paint and worked up to inbetweening and layouts before worked was shipped to Korea, and i went independent , and have been ever since....doing commercial work, and shorts for fun and festivals...had a close call for a series on a cable network in Atlanta....(i wont mention which one)......
but personally this site is great for "anyone" who wants to pick the brains of the pros.....and should stay as such........^_^

"but" , hey i'm just a lowly lover and maker of animation.....


WONGFEI
"a word from the east; eastcoast that is" [bow]

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pud
IE # 30
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Anyone having a discussion of the 'arts ' shouldn't be categorized, depending on their employment, past or present.
Meaning someones opinion is not better than the rest.

But if the discussion goes to actual experience and not just personal opinion, then i can see how someone who currently has experience of being in the business would have more knowledge in their posts, due to their history.

Then again, even experienced artists have horrible
opinions. Just look at BobV. Amazing talented animator....but its a train wreck coming straight for you. Ugh. [Razz]

I like that this site has both. That is, it has BobV....and then there's the rest of us.

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" Your Scenes are there forever." - Ollie Johnston
http://markpudleiner.blogspot.com/

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-FP-
IE # 13
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Full-time working pro here, freelance, in 2D illustration, 3D animation, and these days, mostly audio editing and scoring. I have many screen credits but you probably won't see them. I work on obscure educational shows for kids that usually cut credits for broadcast. I don't brag about the specifics because some episodes, in which I was not involved, are horrible. I do TV commercials that are only shown regionally. I've completely produced (except for scripts and character voices) over thirty-five shorts in 3D for the educational market, and collaborated on tons of others. My IMDB entry is innacurate and incomplete, but the corrections I've submitted have been ignored....
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