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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » Report on AnimationNation #6 - April 1, 2004

   
Author Topic: Report on AnimationNation #6 - April 1, 2004
Charles
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There's a lot to say as it was a very successful and eventful event. So I'll do it in parts.

From my perspective on it, here's how it went.

I checked the time to see when it was 1:30 and it was 1:45. Everyone was by the food, munchin down the goodies. We didn't get the meeting going till 2:00 and that was by calling everyone to take a seat, and that was fine by me as I didn't feel like I was on a show or had to prove something to a scrutinizing crowd like in years past.

So after we sang Happy Birthday to AWN, I publicly greeted as many people as I could recognize and have them wave to everyone.

There were just under 60 people there in total, a little more than last year. That includes the newborn infants, which also made this day special. To see long time ANers coming in with an 8 month old baby.

The biggest surprise for me was seeing James Baxter there. Man, that was really something. Got a chance to personally tell him how amazed I was with his animation on Spirit.

To be continued.

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Charles
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After the public greetings, I embarked upon my opening comments and started by telling the crowd that I had none.

I didn't prepare anything as I didn't feel like listening to myself, that I would rather listen to what everyone else had to say.

I went into my traditional briefing about the site's traffic and described how AN has a heartbeat that can be measured by the clicks of the mouse it gets per second anytime of the day or night.

Got a little emotional talking about the friends I've made through the site, then went on to mention something I heard the night before from Jim Ladd, a free form rock and roll disk jockey on LA radio who is the righteous lonesome cowboy of the airwaves.

That it's easy to be cynical, it's easy to be bitter. It's hard to be positive and to believe in the future and that things can get better.

And that's what I choose. I believe in the future and I'm not willing to give up on the possibilities.

So after expressing these general sentiments, which seemed to set the vibe for the comments to follow, I sat down and enjoyed the event from a front row seat.

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Charles
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Here's some of the celebrated personalities in attendance in addition to James Baxter.

Steve Worth (Bigshot), Jerry Beck from CartoonResearch.com. Antran Manoogian the President of ASIFA-Hollywood, Kevin Koch the President of the Animation Guild, Ryan Ball the Online Editor of Animation Magazine, Dan Sarto the President and Co-Founder of AWN.com, Bronnie Barry fresh from her interview with National Public Radio, Amid Amidi from AnimationBlast.com and CartoonBrew.com, plus many others.

Pud was there, Snakebite, Offbeat, Strawberry, Animagus, RedDiabla, StephG, Waltdog, Todd, Toonedbob, Josh Book, RuzzT, Doodles, KevinO, Im2DGuy, JDC, Jasen, Skellener, and many other interesting and talented people like Law Jackson, Tammy Morrison, Sketchboy and Jose Lopez.

Our board moderators Brian Reynolds, Tom Narey and Arash Tirgari (Talos 72).

There was a fellow there who drove all the way up from San Juan Capistrano, an emerging animation artist from Cuba.

There were a few students from Cal Arts.

I saw this attractive lady hanging out towards the back and eventually met q. Got a big hug from her later on. That was nice.

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Charles
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The speakers were the real highlight of AN #6 starting with Eric Hedman. Eric is in LA as he prepares to move into the area from Oakland, California. He presented the first annual Uncle Awards.

Receiving the award on behalf of Uncle Roy Disney was Antran Manoogian of ASIFA.

On behalf of Uncle Stanley Gold, AWN's Dan Sarto since he was the closest thing to a straight out business man that we had with us.

On behalf of Uncle Don Bluth, Mark Pudleiner since he worked for him for so many years and had a way of delivering the award.

On behalf of Uncle John Lasseter, John Nevarez since he was the biggest Pixar fan in the room and shared the same first name.

The trophies will be delivered to the winners, as soon as we figure out how to do it.

Eric mentioned that we should have an Aunty Award for the women in our industry and so that's what we'll do in addition to the Uncle starting next year.

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Charles
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Antran got up next and gave a howdy-do to the crowd. He introduced Steve Worth who spoke at length about an exciting new project that ASIFA is preparing for.

He started by presenting a color photo of an old caricature and asked if anyone recognized the person. Only a couple of folks did and he told us that it was Ub Iwerks. He then went on to describe this ambitious endeavor to create a museum of animation. A huge data base focused entirely upon the artists and the art going back to Grim Natwick and beyond. The most complete and in depth archival record of its kind in the world that would eventually be made available online.

Steve then introduced Jerry Beck who announced his upcoming 2D Expo. It was the first time he was making this public, a significant event he's organizing dedicated to the furtherance of 2D animation. I wish I took notes, but I was relaxed and chillin to the words of the speakers and didn't think of writing things down.

Which is why I have to stop and think about who followed Jerry at the podium.

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Charles
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There was some kind of magic in the air, as when Bronnie got up and announced that she had been interviewed by NPR that morning, and how she had made the decision to stick with 2D. Bronnie is a very effective and articulate speaker.

Bruce, IE member #1 got up and made nothing less than a startling announcement of his own that was to me an obvious act of Providence. I'm not free to disclose what it is, but you're all going to be astonished when he makes it public a little later in the month.

Snakebite came up and shared some profoundly wise, inspiring and comforting words of strength with us all.

Strawberry gave his first public talk. He spoke about the negativity that can sometimes be so prevalent in the review of films by people, and that even in a bad film there are many good things worth mentioning.

Let me think who else.

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Charles
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Im2DGuy spoke about the Animation Co-op.

Among the profound speakers we had with us with JDC, James Crowley.

James is a recent graduate of Woodbury University's animation program and has a Bachelors Degree. He worked his way through school as an employee of one of the supermarket chains and was on strike with the rest of the grocery workers union the past few months.

James is an inspiration and he expressed his thanks for the support that the union got through the members of this site. Right on, James.

Alan Simmons shared some words that were full of power and conviction. He's an amazing artist who hails from Britain. He studied at Oxford for awhile at one time and has been a pro-activist for many years with a variety of important issues.

ToonedBob was great as always with his million dollar smile. He shared the publication of his work and left copies of this little book he produced which led to the development of a series of projects that he's currently involved with.

Law Jackson, a great artist in many mediums, got up and spoke about how his training and experience in 3D has made him realize how important and significant 2D is and how talk of its passing is foolish.

Ryan Ball greeted the crowd and reaffirmed Animation Magazine's support of AnimationNation.

Chance Raspberry from The Animation Academy in Burbank got up and gave a nice little speech.

Don Sheehan was definitely a memorable commentator. He drives big semi-trucks for a living and is working at someday getting into the business. At any other time, he wouldn't of had a problem he is that talented of an artist.

Ken Roskos aka Eagle-One announced that the Animation Guild is offering classes in Maya training free of charge to Guild members.

I hope I'm not forgetting anybody.

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Charles
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Eric Hedman also mentioned that Ashanti Miller, our SolielSmile would have made it if she could but she was up north, so hello Ashanti from all of us at the meeting.

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Charles
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The t-shirts seemed to be a hit. Sold quite a few. Enough to recoup a full 66% of the production expense in just one afternoon.

Still have a good number available, but the mediums are all gone. I'll be selling them at the Academy and if someone far away out there wants to purchase one, I'll try and figure something out.

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Charles
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The meeting ended in style. While at the podium for the last time, I saluted everyone by raising my clenched fists in the air and boy did that feel good.

The food was pretty much all gone, coffee and soft drinks the same.

Thank you Robert Gold and especially Tom Narey for helping set it up and for taking care of the front desk.

Thank you everybody and God bless. Can't wait till next year.

Anyone else in attendance who has anything else to add, feel free. That'll do it for me.

See you at AnimationNation #7 next April 1, 2005.

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Striker
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Great to hear that things went so well yet again Charles. Perhaps one day some of us up here in the Great White North will be able to come down there and partake of some of those words of wisdom.

Congatulations!!!

Oh, and by the way...I DO want a t-shirt!!! How do we get 'em??

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Doodles
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Thanks for having us, Charles. Sorry I had to leave before it was over, but I had to get back to handle a last-minute committment. Well worth getting to meet everyone.
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q
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My head was plenty abuzz with all the things people were talking about when I recalled Eric Hedman , in the midst of three coversations, saying to me ,

"And all those people falling off the side of the Titianic, that was all motion capture too!"

ah...He made a joke. I would have said "ha' earlier, but I was having two other conversations and didn't hear what you had said until an hour later when i was replaying the echoes in my head.

So here's a "Ha" for the subtle humor of Eric Hedman

And Thank you to Charles, I was looking for the green hat... All this is just the best.

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SNAKEBITE
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6 and still kickin! thats inspiring!

it was a good meeting, I had a good talk with Pudd and Kevin before the meeting started.
they were kind enough to lent me rant about lifes many crossroads and misconceptions
and gave me some words of wisdom which I appreciated. thanks Pudd and Kevin.

I didn't get to talk to as many people as I would've liked. I came a lil late and left a lil early.Got to talk to my good friend and inspirational business man, Toonedbob for a bit. always an honor, brutha Bob.
it was good to see all of y'all. been in my cave much too long sharpening spears....need to get out and throw them from time to time.

it was really good to see ya, C!

KEEP CREATING!!!

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pud
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[Smile]

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JDC
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[thumbsup]

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Eric Hedman
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quote:
So here's a "Ha" for the subtle humor of ......
Thank you.
It might have been better if so many virtual people hadn't died to make Titanic.....
And so many virtual fish hadn't died to get the schooling right in Nemo.

When will it all end..oh the virtual humanity....
and, um .....Pescanity.....

Q, if you weren't so charming and dressed so well, you probably would have only had to deal with one conversation at a time. [Wink]

And as far as what I said after Lawrence about Puppets....I meant it...3D CGI characters are puppets....no one should be afraid of them....
It just took puppet animation until 1992 to catch up with what was done with drawing since the early 1900's. Then the computer made it possible to fully make puppet animation process more economical for large scale projects.

Hang in there folks...keep making good stuff....
Thanks again Charles and all your "elves." [Smile]

The T-Shirts are really cool. [Smile]

Fellow Ex-Employee, Lurker Friends...I bought some. Lemme know if you want one. [Smile]

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bigshot
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quote:
It just took puppet animation until 1992 to catch up with what was done with drawing since the early 1900's.
And AGAIN I holler out from the peanut gallery... WHAT ABOUT GEORGE PAL?!

See ya
Steve

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Eric Hedman
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George Pal, was amazing....but his characters didn't carry convincingly carry entire movies. They were cool...and funny....But they weren't the folks from Halloween Town or Wallace and Gromit.

Motion Control Cameras and Modern Lighting instruments have made Nightmare and Aardman features live.

Pal was making movies and special effects for another time. His stuff is dated now. It is still magical...but dated. It was an important step in stop motion effects, especially for people who came after. But me not including him in my statement is because I think that although he is important, I personally have never been that greatly inspired by his work. Entertained yes. Inspired...not really. He deserves recognition, but if you are charting the progress of puppets usage into the time of virtual computer puppets I don't think that people will be able to use him as an example because most of his work is not readily available except to collectors or animation buffs such as yourself. Except maybe in Excerpt form in the The Fantasy Film Worlds of George Pal. Which is worth borrowing or renting, or having if you are into using virtual computer puppets....or 3D as everyone and their dog calls it.

All the animation Media deserves recognition.
Puppets, Clay, Drawing, Paint, even Audio Animatronics.

That was generally my point.
I wasn't doing anything scholarly.
I'll leave that up to scholars.
Remember that Uncle Walt said that he just made cartoons and then let the experts tell him what they "meant"

I think the best thing that Animation Nation and the IE will be doing in the future is helping people do NEW things, and supporting groups like ASIFA in preserving and conserving what our legacy represents.

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bigshot
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The cartoons in the Puppetoon movie conclusively prove that Pal's characters most definitely *do* carry the films every bit as much as 2D characters in shorts do. And Pal's personality-packed walk cycles and eye popping hand carved, yet still fluid squash and stretch make Nightmare Before Xmas look downright stiff in comparison.

Just look at that walk cycle of the Screwball Army's General that opens all of the American made Puppetoons. It's one of the most utterly perfect, crystaline little bits of animation ever created... it has a masterful feeling of weight, tons of personality, musical rhythm, arcs, interesting (and not distracting) overlapping action, follow through, smooth squash and stretch and snappy timing. On top of all that, it's a walk cycle that makes you laugh out loud all by itself with no dialogue and no gags! When was the last time you saw that in a recent film, much less a CGI film?

I bet if you ask someone who animated on NBX, they will tell you how many times they referred to Pal, and even though their crew was many times the size of Pal's they wish they could have accomplished half of what Pal did in his best animation. And I bet if you showed a 3D rigger the Puppetoon movie and asked him what he thought of Pal's puppets and the way they move, he'd tell you that they are sheer genius.

If George Pal's Puppetoons are irrelevant because they are "dated", then so is the work of Rod Scribner, Fred Moore and Bill Tytla. That is exactly the sort of attitude that keeps animation running in circles reinventing the wheel instead of building on the past and improving on it.

While CGI continues to struggle to figure out how to apply traditional animation appeal, timing, action analysis and personality techniques to three dimensional models, George Pal's films sit on the shelf gathering dust! Every one of the techniques described in The Illusion of Life and the Preston Blair books is on display in just about every scene of a Puppetoon. The problem of creating an appealing puppet that lives and breathes with as much finesse as traditional animation was solved more than half a century ago!

It isn't a matter of being "scholarly"... Classic films aren't dusty, old documents that only guys like Jerry Beck or Leonard Maltin should care about. They're there to instruct... like a cinematic equivalent of musical etudes or cannons. They're encyclopedias of the language of film that every filmmaker needs to be aware of to become visually fluent. You wouldn't expect someone to become a great poet without studying how others have used words, why should you expect to be a great animator without knowledge of the way others have used your particular language of expression? If you only study "currently relevant films" (which I assume from speaking with people with similar misconceptions are the films made since Star Wars), then I feel duty-bound to inform you that you are wasting your time studying a thimbleful of water in an ocean of ideas. You have as much chance of accomplishing more than George Pal did as you would dreaming up Einstein's theory of relativity on your own without cracking a single physics textbook.

The attitude that animation can be too dated to be of use to current filmmakers is aggressively ignorant. Don Graham had every Disney animator study Chaplin's "One AM"... a silent B&W short that was completely obsolete by 1940s standards. Yet it wasn't too dated for Art Babbitt or Fred Moore to learn about anticipation, body silhouette and directing the audience's eye to important action. It's still profoundly useful to animators. Have you studied it? You should. And you should go down to Blockbuster today and rent the Puppetoon Movie. It has dozens of films that will totally change your mind about the usefulness of studying George Pal's techniques.

I don't mean to chew you a new arsehoel, but this is exactly the sort of thing that I am focused on providing to the artform with the ASIFA Animation Archive Project... but it isn't going to do a lick of good if animators aren't open to it. After the AN meeting, two artists came up to me and asked who George Pal was and where they could find his films. I told them about the Puppetoon Movie DVD and gave them a couple of the titles to look at in particular. Those guys have an edge on you. They're going to find the reference, analyze it, digest it and process it and be light years ahead of you because of it. The only difference between you and them is that they know that the answers are out there, and they're open to finding them. That's really all it takes.

But you need to change the way you look at films if you want to learn from them. You need to teach yourself to think analytically about what you are looking at. Once you are able to do that, you will find it very difficult to look at animated films merely for entertainment value any more. Instead, you will be combing what you watch for that particular trick of timing or bit of staging that you can use to help find a solution for the work you are doing at the time. Every time you look at a particularly good cartoon, you will sift out a new gem that you never noticed before. You'll never be bored because you've "already seen this cartoon before"; on the contrary, you'll constantly be seeing new things in it.

See ya
Steve

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Eric Hedman
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quote:
But you need to change the way you look at films if you want to learn from them. You need to teach yourself to think analytically about what you are looking at.

I do...but my opinion and ubiquity counts for more than other peoples/animation fans analysis in my world. The Pal stuff that sells for me nearly always involves humans.
That is my decision.
I will not include all things everyone has ever done in what I consider inspiring.
I am one guy working for others, while at the same time trying to do things on my own with my own money. George Pal is an interesting footnote in my life and trying to ram him down my throat isn't going to help you win me as a friend.
It's not helpful to tell me that George Pal went farther than I'll ever go. You can write it for me to read. But like I said, it won't make you my friend.

I was trying to change perceptions about 3D in a way most drawing folks don't usually think about it. The last thing this needs to get bogged down with is a sacrosanct assault.
That is the least useful way to me over to your cause.

Just to get this off my chest....
I don't really like Terry Toons. I don't like all Fleischer stuff. Pal stuff doesn't really inspire me...it informs my consciousness, but I do not want to be bullied into excepting it's holiness...Just 'cause it came before doesn't mean I have to LIKE it....the same way I will not accept the weird associations people have with Tweety Bird.
It freakin' weirds me out man!!! [Smile]
I would rather have Sylvester, Junior and the Kangaroo in his place.


If you want to win me, or anyone else over, you're gonna have to be more excepting of opinion.
You might be able to change it, but you will harden it by telling the other person that they are ignorant.
You probably do know more than I do, on most subjects.... It's nice that you do.
In the future I will probably always defer to you, if someone needs to have an important question answered.
Because of your great wealth of knowledge.

I do care about George Pal.
Am I in love with his characters?....Nope.
Does his work inspire me at my core?....Nope.
Why didn't you include him in your talk about the archive? Why wasn't there a puppet component talked about in your plans for the archive?

I like you Steve, you are a good guy.
I want to be your friend.
I also don't want to be brow beaten for trying to include a medium to describe another mediums appearance/proliferation and then be pooped on for having a preference different from yours.

I suggest a moderator remove this and the last three posts from the "AN" thread and place it in its own, because they don't belong in here. This thread is to celebrate AN.

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gahlord
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Pity the thread degrades to this but really... you can say something like "It just took puppet animation until 1992 to catch up with what was done with drawing since the early 1900's" in reference to the arrival of CGI and somehow not expect to take flak for it? Well duh man....


g

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Shane Glines
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quote:
If you want to win me, or anyone else over, you're gonna have to be more excepting of opinion.
I'm not sure what this means, but I know I'm going out to buy the Puppetoons movie today.

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Eric Hedman
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It's a good movie, you and everyone else should own it. It's like King Kong or the Sinbad movies.

My contention about moving cameras and lights and broad appeal of characters could be assailed....I would like someone to do it. But a locked down camera and a stage with stuff going on on top of it is the problem Nightmare solved with Motion Control Cameras, and more good cinematography/lighting...that is what brought Puppets into the same league as Drawn Animation....for a full feature story.
Then computer simulation of similar kinds of puppets, cameras, and lights, and facial/feature replacement, et al without the requisite possibility of major armature, or other equipment failure. Well, that brought Virtual Computer Puppets into the same league as Drawn Animation.

Without George Pal there may not have been the exact same aesthetic, the same set of inspited people or wealth of technique, but he was not the first or the last puppet animator.
I bet Rankin and Bass and their people got much inspiration from him. My contention is still as a narrative feature...Puppet characters in a fully fabricated world didn't really carry a full feature with broad appeal until Nightmare.

That is my opinion.
I don't see many Tubby the Tuba T-Shirts out there.
Do you?

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bigshot
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My argument isn't about your opinion of George Pal's work... it's about your vigorous defense of your right to keep yourself in the dark about it. Your comments about Pal reveal that you haven't seen many of his Puppetoons. The fact that you feel there's nothing for you to get of them says more about you than it does the films.

There's nothing wrong with not being aware of something. When I hang out with animators, the first thing I ask them is what they've seen lately that I haven't seen yet. I haunt Shane's board to see the drawings and frame grabs that have been posted. And I hang out with animators after hours at "theory nights" where we watch and analyze classic animated films. I live for that "hot tip" that opens up a whole new world to me, and I share the stuff I know. Amid has shown me amazing stuff from the UPA era. Jerry Beck has screened films that I never would have seen otherwise. John K's reference library is packed with new stuff for me to discover. A couple of posts back, Shane did what I do regularly on his board... He took a recommendation for a good piece of reference and ran with it. He's looking at the Puppetoons movie as we speak. He "gets it".

If I limited my sphere of influence to just the things produced in my own generation, I would be missing out on a whole world of information. I'm not just talking about nostalgic films from my childhood. I didn't see an MGM Tex Avery cartoon until I was in college, and aside from a couple of B&W Popeyes, I hadn't seen any Fleischer apart from the two features and SInbad. I wasn't born when Chaplin made his last film; and as a kid, my only exposure to Buster Keaton was on a Twilight Zone episode. But all of these people and films have become invaluable to me today. And I wouldn't know diddly about them if I waited for them to show up on cable or based my opinions on a couple of TV documentaries. I had to go out and do research. I watched the films, read books on them, talked with people who know more than I do, and drew my own conclusions.

Just because a film is in a genre that doesn't apply to what I'm doing, it doesn't mean that it isn't useful reference. Case in point... Disney Silly Symphonies are about as far from a Spumco cartoon as a film could possibly be, but John K's shelves include dozens of tapes and binders full of video printouts from Silly Symphonies. Why? Because they have a wealth of knowledge about FX animation, scene planning and technical matters. John has taken the time to sit down and analyze every one of these films to cull useful knowledge from them. He may not enjoy the cartoons, but he sure isn't going to dismiss them out of hand just because he doesn't like the content of the stories and characters. That's how fans think, not how pros work.

When you say something like this...

quote:
I think the best thing that Animation Nation and the IE will be doing in the future is helping people do NEW things, and supporting groups like ASIFA in preserving and conserving what our legacy represents.
...it depresses me.

If my job as Director of the ASIFA Animation Archives Program is to "preserve and conserve" then I quit. I'm not interested in bottling cartoons in jars full of formaldahyde or pinning them like bugs in the display cases at the Natural History Museum. I want the history of animated filmmaking to be a vital thing that lives on to enlighten and influence NEW animators and their work.

A legacy preserved, but ignored is no legacy at all. That's the way executives think about cartoons, not artists.

See ya
Steve

By the way... the two fellas who asked about Pal also asked me about whether 3D puppets would be included in the archive. I have a Speedy Alka Seltzer, Pillsbury Doughboy and two Pal style puppets from the fifties that I plan to photograph for the archives. I also know people with maquettes that I would like to include. If anyone has material to contribute, or iis familiar with authoring Quicktime VR movies that allow you to see an object from all sides, I'd like to talk to you.

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bigshot
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I just re-read your post and there's a Mark Twain quote that applies... (Apologies to Chuck Jones)

"Everyone is ignorant... just on different subjects."

The difference between ignorance and stupidity is something that many people misunderstand. Stupidity is being incapable of knowing something. Ignorance is simply not having the experience. Everyone is lacking experience in some areas. I'm not calling you stupid. My objection is to agressively preserving the sanctity of ignorance.

See ya
Steve

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Dickie Crickitts
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His stuff is dated now. It is still magical...but dated.

Many works of art are 'dated.' Humanity has thousands of years of 'dated' works of art. Are you saying that the artists that came before us are irrelevant because they are not *current*? One of the best end products of art is that the artist produces a work for future generations to see or experience. If other artists can't appreciate that, then what's the point?

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Eric Hedman
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So, I should venerate the people that brought us Clutch Cargo?

--------------------
http://www.radiodismuke.com
20's-30's music

Come see my Second Life Stuff
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chilispoon/128/80/39

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bigshot
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An interesting quote by Bob Dylan in Sunday's LA Times...

quote:
It's only natural to pattern yourself after someone. If I wanted to be a painter, I might think about trying to be like Van Gogh, or if I was an actor, act like Laurence Olivier. If I was an architect, there's Frank Gehry. But you can't just copy somebody. If you like someone's work, the important thing is to be exposed to everything that person has been exposed to. Anyone who wants to be a songwriter should listen to as much folk music as they can, study the form and structure of stuff that has been around for 100 years. I go back to Stephen Foster.
Across the top of the page were images of Dylan's influences, going all the way back to William Shakespere.

I feebly attempted to quote Sir Isaac Newton at the meeting. Here's the quote that I was trying to remember...

quote:
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.
It's not enough to just respect the past. You have to incorporate it.

See ya
Steve

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bigshot
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quote:
So, I should venerate the people that brought us Clutch Cargo?
You might not be aware of this, but Margaret Kerry-Wilcox, the voice (and mouth) of Spinner on Clutch Cargo sits alongside me on the Board of Directors of ASIFA-Hollywood. She was one of the principles behind the Clutch Cargo show, but she also has a long career in Hollywood doing voices, acting and dancing going all the way back to her childhood in the Our Gang series.

Most folks who are interested in animation know her best as Tinkerbell in Peter Pan. She worked closely with Marc Davis, acting among oversized props to create the roto reference. Since Tinkerbell didn't speak, they wanted to be sure that the character communicated clearly through strong body poses and expressions. Margaret's gift for pantomime and acting was exactly what they needed. When you see Tinkerbell roughed up in the back of the sewing drawer, or dusting herself off petulantly afterwards, you are looking at the end product of her work.

Margaret's one of the nicest and most generous people I know. Although I doubt if she would submit to being "venerated", I would say that she does have valuable information to share. I know I've learned from her.

See ya
Steve

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bigshot
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Excuse me... there are two Ls in Willcox.

See ya
Steve

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Eric Hedman
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Like I said...I will continue to defer to you, Mighty Sage. [Smile]

--------------------
http://www.radiodismuke.com
20's-30's music

Come see my Second Life Stuff
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chilispoon/128/80/39

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Kevin
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Not to interrupt a great debate, but back to the thread topic -- I was sorry to have to leave early. Sounds like I missed some good energy. I would have liked to have been there to share the final fist raising.

Hey, how do we nominate people for next year's Uncle Awards? If we can all weigh in, I nominate Charles Z. 'Nuff said.

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Kevin
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Uncle Charles.

It's got a nice ring to it.

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Eric Hedman
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Lord Charles....
King Charles.....
Charles of the wild frontier!!!!

--------------------
http://www.radiodismuke.com
20's-30's music

Come see my Second Life Stuff
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Chilispoon/128/80/39

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skellener
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If you're taking nominations already, I nominate Ray Harryhaussen for Lifetime Uncle Achievement Award.

When I worked for Randy Cook (Academy Award winner on all three LOTR films) years ago at his fx shop "Ruckus Enterprises" he refered to Ray as "Uncle Ray" on quite a number of occasions. Ray Harryhaussen is stop-motion animation. He has definitely put in a lifetime of achievement into it.

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Scott Ruggels
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I'm sorry I missed it....

...again...

Scott

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