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» AnimationNation   » General Discussion   » Who to Blame?

   
Author Topic: Who to Blame?
Animation Pimp
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If you want a villain, take a look at God.
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Paul D
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Holy Smokes! Now I KNOW you are just looking for trouble.

I personally don't really think God enters into it (being a non-believer and all) but there are a lot of people out there who do have a strong faith in God and in many cases it is their faith that helps them get through what is an awful time. There is no reason for you to play devil's advocate and blame a God I suspect you don't believe in.

You're just looking for a reaction and there is no good reason to do that!


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Animation Pimp
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Sorry..the reply button got pressed too early.

Let me explain a bit more.
God (whatever form you've envisioned) is blindly invoked throughout this panel (and in the world in general).

"god given freedom"? What the heck does this mean? Are you saying that God has chosen the United States over everyone else? That seems a bit strange to me.

Seems more accurate to suggest that the apparent freedom you've attained has come through self-interest. It has come in the name of economics. U.S. foreign policies are making the world better for corporations not for god.

Secondly...Umm....wouldn't Jesus have turned the other cheek?

Wouldn't according to some of you christians, the people who jumped to their deaths be going right to hell for taking their own lives?

I'm not directing this just at Western plutocracies...the same can be said of your those who committed this act and those (including the west) who've committed acts like these throughout history.

Was the slaughter of Native Americans, god's command?

Was the bombing of Hiroshima for God?

God, whatever concept you have of him/her/it, has probably done more damage to this world than any of us care to admit or imagine.

The people who died this week will be better served by all of us re-thinking our actions and preconceptions about the world. If we do not (and I include myself because I'm as guilty as anyone) we will see more lives lost in the apparent name of god.

It takes more umm...balls (as Malcolm so nicely put it) to just sit back and re-think your life than it does to get to let yourself be enveloped by hate and anger. Punching your neighbour doesn't take balls.


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Paul D
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You are making no distinction between people (politicians, extremists, terrorists, etc.)who envoke "God on our side" and people with the faith in God that makes this planet and humanity more whole.

Bob McClure was a doctor in China during the second world war. A very religious man who was spending his days mending wounded men, women and children who had been mutilated by landmines and unexploded shells. He took a crash course in bomb defusion from some soldiers and spent his spare time finding and defusing landmines... at a time when there was a very low survival rate for that kind of work.

Ghandi, Mother Theresa, and so many more people have done beautiful and wonderful things in the name of their God. I may not share their faith but can honor what they have done and honor why they have done it.

Again... there is a very important distinction to make which you did not.


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Animation Pimp
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That is true...I should have made a distinction. I guess what I'm saying is less about the existence of God and more about the often hypocritical and superficial interpretations of this belief.
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Eboshi-sama
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The Biblical verse of "turning the other cheek" is taken out of context. What Jesus is saying in that verse is if you are struck on the cheek because you are a believer/defender of God--not to just blindly take whatever abuses may be thrown at you for whatever reason.

People of both good and bad intentions feel a need to cling to God right now, as to feel comforted or justified.

Lady Eboshi


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ClosetAni1
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Taking massive life and then expecting your enemy to "turn the other cheek" is a cold-blooded tactic, not a religious philosophy. It would have been nice if the hijackers had turned the other cheek. You would like Americans to feel like the guilty party here. These are not the kind of acts that deserve understanding. This was an attack on the WTC, and therefore not only an attack on America, but on people from all over the world. 500 British citizens alone have been lost. Neither Britain, nor Germany, nor Canada can afford to sit back and smugly say this is America's problem caused by America's interests. Your fellow citizens are in danger too. I'm happy to find that at least the governments of those countries are behind the US, even if some of its people are not.

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Jumper go
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ClosetAni1- i can tell you, most of people from foreign countries are behind America... that is, to find the terrorists and judge them, NOT to attack the "black sheep" country and start a new war.
And most of us think, America's government has it's fair share of guilt for this attacks. If they want to play the roll of "worlds policemen" they should take the possibility of such attacks.

>>>I'm happy to find that at least the governments of those countries are behind the US<<<
Of course. They must be. Would they want to make an enemy of US? Don't trust politics.


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Dave is
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What you don't seem to understand Jumper Go is that the US didn't want to be the worlds policeman but that oither countries wouldn't. No money, no support. This has nothing to do with that at all. These people kill their own families, they kill their friends, their allies hey kill their own people. They are as bad or worse as any tyrant the US tried to keep relations with for the stability of the area, I'm pretty tired of the "oh you should expect this sort of thing" . And no, as a Canadian I can tell you that most outsider DON"T think this comes with the job. There are no political motivations to this it is wholesale murder . period. Where is the political message ? There isn't any.None. It's murder outright for the sake of murder.
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ClosetAni1
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The "Black Sheep" country? Sponsors of terrorists who murdered thousands? Sheesh. Cry me a river.

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Animation Pimp
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There are no political motivations to this it is wholesale murder . period. Where is the political message ? There isn't any.None. It's murder outright for the sake of murder.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Are you describing U.S. actions as well? Korea. Vietnam. Iraq. Sudan.

Let us also not forget the inactions. We talk about what the U.S. has done, but we often neglect to mention what it has not done (East Timor...because of course they were supporting Indonesia). The U.S. picks and chooses who it will protect. Usually (as we've seen with Iraq) this depends on economic interests.

What are those direct and indirect actions? Political?

What about the innocent people the U.S. has murdered? Should we just forget this Dave? Should we all of sudden forget the past?

Not one of us here accepts or condones what happened on Tuesday, but there is are historical activities that have links to this dreadful attack. TO just ignore those is absolutely foolish. That you call U.S. actions policing is absolutely ignorant and insulting to ALL victims of terrorism.

As a Canadian, no a human being, what I support is a stance against terrorism and that includes U.S. terrorism.


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Codrick
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html

These guys want what Afghanistan has now. These two are just as scary. Only they're HERE.


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Animation Pimp
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Wow...that's an amazingly scary piece.
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ClosetAni1
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Keep listing, Pimp. You can't justify it. You can go on all day, but it won't work.

Would you like a list of the atrocities committed by the middle east? How long would you like it to be? Shall I start with ten, twenty, thirty years ago? Longer? How bout a dossier on Saddam and his maniac sons? Especially the list of things he's done to his own people, that one's a page turner.

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Animation Pimp
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Then people are just gonna keep on dying.
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cshoe
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Man, Codrick, what a sick a twisted article! What the heck does feminism or the American Civil Liberties Union have to do with terrorist attacks against our country? Gee, ask for equal pay for equal work and you invite the wrath of god? Now, I have heard everything.

I'm scared.


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jenner
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On the topic of God

I will agree with you, AP, and say that there are many hypocrits in the world, many americans who use God's name to bless america, and then use the same name to curse the terrorists and our circumstance. That doesn't make any sense to me.

But I will say,.. don't look to the people for answers about God. People fall down everyday.

Let's invision God as an artist for a moment. God has a plan, I believe, for everybody. Your life and this world is a painting that God is still creating. God is big and so is his canvas. We are very small.
I say, how dare we stand with our nose pressed against His canvas and declare it a mess. In the end this will make sense, but right now I think we just have to trust in that. Because right now we are focusing on a very small peice of the painting.

God exists and He doesn't believe in Atheists.

Peoples lives get cut short and we demand to know why. Don't you think that's a little arogant?


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Animation Pimp
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(damn reply button...)

I'm not justifying anything.
But if you continue to just view this as some isolated event then all the tears and flags and rhetoric will mean absolutely nothing in the end because all of these deeply felt, but essentially symbolic, gestures will mean sweet all when more people are slaughtered for no reason.

Next time innocent people die on another part of the world I sure as hell hope you express the same compassion.


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Twedzel
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That is a terrifying peice. Please don't let these guys ever get into power again.
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dave gerry
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America's previous involvement with who we now call terrorists was created as a method to contain Soviet expansion during the cold war. Basically, whomever claimed to be fighting on the frontlines against invading communist forces would be financed by the U.S.. Hence our involvement in the Persian Gulf - since among other things, to effectively wage war in those days one needed massive supplies of oil products. Almost every deal made with 'Islamic' extremists was made with the intended purpose of containing the Soviet threat.
One of the key motivations of these terrorist groups is this: now that the Soviets are out(whom they were supposedly defending themselves from in the first place), the main 'western'(actually Modern) influence that is seen everywhere is the U.S.. This does not gel with people who were already murdering and killing each other en mass well before they ever met the U.S.. According to some interpretations of Koran scripture, only devout Muslums may walk on the lands Mohammed walked upon; Saudi Arabia. Take a wild guess where Bin Laden's from.
What we're seeing is fallout from previous foreign policy, perpetuated by suicidal religious fanatics that we made dubious alliances with.
This is destruction. Of course God's to blame. He also created this whole mess, didn't he? But blaming God makes no sense, because to blame someone is only a step to exacting punishment.

Now, how on earth are you going to punish God?


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Dave is
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Pimp, show me the direct link between the people who died in that tower and US government actions from 20 years ago ? What no criminals sitting at their desks when it happened ? There is absolutely no link so ALL the people killed were innocents. If I was slapped by a bully as a child I DONT get the right to slap his children. DIG ? Try and use your vengeful BS and inferiority complex on someone stupid enough to accept it.
I'm pretty much sick of you painting these people as saints and the US as the devil. Choose your tyrants Pimp. Prove to me that the US backed tyrants were any worse than their homegrown tyrants (which of course they all were natives, funny huh). Were innocent people killed in US back countries and their wars ? Of course. Who pulled the trigger Pimp, or do you believe in mass hypnosis. It's quite a joke you even play this game. You leave out everyone who was involved but the US. They get the sole blame to you. You were totally offbase in your excuses for cultural developement in other countries and you are completely offbase here.

The idea that you call what the US did " terrorism" is of course more BS. You don't even understand the word. The American public was never properly informed so it is quite beyond me that you can even find the guts to claim these acts as American backed. Don't ever try to give reason to wholesale murder by trying to tie it to past political mistakes. Two wrongs never will make a right . No matter what you say there is no link between the past and this destruction. None. WTC was wholesale murder with no political reason.


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Animation Pimp
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Make him watch the WB
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Codrick
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The article I posted above have quotes from the ilk who want so badly to believe they represent the vast majority of christians in this country. Of course, they don't--but they do own some of the major arteries to power now running our country. I don't doubt for a second that should they ever have their way, they'd begin persecuting all who don't believe in what they believe or say. All I can say is I'm glad no one really takes them seriously. Such sick opportunists. AND--did you know that Pat Robertson even said "God told me this was going to happen 11 days ago." Yes, Robertson is an avid occultist who heard this from "god" and failed to notify authorites. Maybe HE should take a large part of the blame himself! (grrrrr....)
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Animation Pimp
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Well...Dave...let's just sit back and watch.
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